Depth Question

Normally I fish around 5'-10' in back of the ball to take advantage of the black box range, make tight turns, use ball trolls, and to be more accurate on the depth of my presentation. When the bite is off I then fish farther in back of the boat. My question is say your fishing 80' back and useing a 4" dodger with a hoochie, spinner, or apex...if you put your ball at 40', what depth is your set-up? Does it fall or rise at a speed of around 1.2 mph? I have read some say it drops around 5' or so that far back. What has been your experience?

Good Question. I dont have a clue either. I am sure that speed plays a major roll. movie Lets see how this one plays out.

Kokaholic, thought I'd post below yours to catch some of that popcorn your dropping! thumbsup I've often wondered exactly where I'm at that far back to get the lure just above em. At times it's just trial and error until you start getting hits. I think I read something about a sling blade type dodger will drop down because of it's weight, but not sure how much. Like you said speed has alot to do with it, just need an idea what happens at the speed of around 1.2-1.6 mph.

I guess I have used the line on my graph coming off of my weight dragging through the water as a true reading. I have seen fish come up to that line, which could be the ball or the ball troll and look and leave.

I'm mirrorly guessing at this point, BUt I think that this will be a tough one to answer based on how would we be able to really get a true reading out that far back.

However, if my dodger is doing what it is designed to do, The flat surface will be dodging back and forth in the water from side to side and that flat surface will keep it " afloat" more or less. The 4" dodger will possibly sink as fast obviously as fast as a 5" because it weighs less and less resistance in the water

But then what the hell do I know. Im just thinking out loud.

Lets see what everyone else thinks about this one. Petty, Propnut, Digitroller, Sockeyeslayer,Halojm, how about you guys from Cali and outlying states, whats your take on this one?

my opinion even letting your line back 100ft from the ball there will be no more then a 2ft rise or fall of the lure/blade from the ball depth, unless you are using a diving lure.

I like to fish from 1.3 to 1.8 mph using a 25 - 40 foot set-back most of the time. On several occasions this year, we graphed fish on the fish finder at a specific depth where the downrigger weight was and the fish hit the lure. It didn't seem like there was much more than a few inches, if any, difference in the downrigger weight and the lure.

I have had this conversation a few times with other kokehunters. Personally i have always thought,that my lures,dodgers etc. were running above the downrigger weight. I feel that they usually run about 2-4 ft higher. This is due to resistance against the lures.The more speed the higher resistance ,the more lift. With less speed the exact opposite happens. There are a few other variables that come into play,such as line diameter, in line weights between lures and the downrigger release. Also how far off the ball,I think makes a difference. If a person was fishing a lure 70ft off the weight,compared to 30 ft off the weight.The 70 ft lure will run a little higher then the 30 ft lure due to amount of line out and resistance against the lure. Of course there is no scientific proof to my thinking and it's usually a guessing game at best for me.

Thought I would see if I could come up with anything in "The Troller's Handbook". It states...If you troll with a short leader, your lure or bait will be at the same depth as the weight. If you let out a lot of line behind the downrigger, a diving lure or heavy lure will go deeper than the weight. A light lure or bait will be the same depth as the downrigger weight even on a long leader.
Checking out the book "Trolling Truths" by Sep, it states...Allow for the natural drop of the terminal rig. Trolling flashers or dodgers 100 feet behind the boat at 1mph can cause the terminal rig to drop as much as ten percent...from 5 to 10 feet, depending upon trolling speed and size of flashers and lures being used. By lowering the downrigger to 25 feet, the terminal flasher rig will be running at or near 35 feet. This is 5 feet above the fish when they are suspended at the 40 foot mark....within perfect attack range. The book goes on to say often trollers fail to take this into account and end up with offerings well below the fish, subsequently striking out, time after time.
From what I make of all this, and I could be wrong, but it sounds like a light dodger and trailing lure like a hoochie or spinner would be at the same depth or maybe up to 5 feet below the ball depth when back 100 feet. Of coarse it all depends on speed, sway back of downrigger weight, clip placement, and terminal gear being used, Does this sound about right?

I think you are correct, but the only way to know for sure is to know the angle of the line behind the ball with your exact rig. Once you know the angle, you can calculate the drop at any line distance behind the wire. If you have a fancy fish finder (I don't), and can see your lure and ball on it at the same time at, say running 10 ft behind the ball, you can use your finder to know the drop per ten feet line.

I'm not even sure that initial line angle can be used all the time because as more line is let out it will tend to bow upwards. I proved this conclusively to myself this year trying some Dipsy divers. These were the small ones and not having directions I started letting out 100 feet of line or so. They would dive fine inititially, but would end up on surface. I concluded that the upward force of the upward line bowing was more than the ability of the dipsy to dive. Cut back on line length to 70 ft and they worked fine.

So, a diving type lure will bow up with a lot of line out, and the maxumum depth attainable will be a factor of line length and weight and speed. I know tables are available on that.

I am not sure whether typical koke rigs will ever be above the ball. Seem that most have a tendency to dive a bit.