Electric Downriggers or Divers (Idaho)

[RustynMtnHome]

New to the trolling aspect, spend most of my time fishing for Bass, Crappie, Perch and Bluegill.

I do live in Idaho, so most of my time trolling would be in Idaho ....

I have the opportunity to get 2 Scotty 1101 Downriggers for $350 .....

So, the question is would you have more success with Divers or a Downrigger ....

I am sure there will be many opinions, looking forward to reading all of them

Thanks In Advance

[kok-head]

New to the trolling aspect, spend most of my time fishing for Bass, Crappie, Perch and Bluegill.

I do live in Idaho, so most of my time trolling would be in Idaho ....

I have the opportunity to get 2 Scotty 1101 Downriggers for $350 .....

So, the question is would you have more success with Divers or a Downrigger ....

I am sure there will be many opinions, looking forward to reading all of them

Thanks In Advance

downriggers, and welcome aboard

[clawman]

Is that 350 for both or each? Either way a good to great deal.
My first experience with downriggers were manual Cannons which I liked down riggers enough to buy electrics for my new boat this year. With the elec. vs manual you will not be afraid to change lures in 50' of water. With manuals I did not check/change tackle as much as I should have.
Unless you quit fishing you will not have any regrets. And even then you can always get your money out of them.

[RustynMtnHome]

That is for both, and didn't think about changing lures. Thanks

[clawman]

I like Herzogs philosophy "don't be a lazy troller". I take that as meaning keep changing things until you start to get bites. It is a lot easier with elec down riggers than manual riggers.

[SuperD]

Rusty,
It's just plan a lot more fun to catch fish without a lot of hardware drag like a diver.

[Mharri333]

Buy them immediately. Worst case you will make a few dollars if you have to resell them.

[jacksonlaker]

You can use downriggers in shallow water. I troll Henry's lake with the balls down 3 feet. It telegraphs strikes better than flat lining and I think it's a better hook set. Buy them now !!!

[conservationist]

I have manual downriggers and use one of these ... never worry about changing tackle and the line is set back to the same place every time ... unless I change the depth on purpose.

http://shastatackle.com/tackleshop/show_Products.asp?ID=38&Name=Shuttle+Hawk

Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4DoOpcp8uw

[mtom938]

After experimenting with both, I prefer downrigging, even from my kayak.

[SuperD]

Where there's a will there's a way Tom. Very nice set up!

[kodiak1]

They recently took a poll of frequent fishermen in the western Washington, and got lots of responses. It was pretty unanimous....Penn for manuals, and Scotty for electrics. I have the Penns, and love them. They have quit making them for some reason several years ago, but are so popular that folks just buy them on Ebay. The Scotty's vote was almost unanimous, and there was lots of grumbling about Cannons. Mike

[Lunddude]

I did a lot of research before I bought my Walker electric downriggers and could not be happier with them.

Smaller and more compact (more metal less plastic) then the others with plenty of power + no belts to break. I can power down with no trouble at all unlike some of the Cannon models.

I know the Scotty's have a big West Coast following but the Walker Electrics Rule on the Great Lakes charter boats.

[kodiak1]

Lunddude is exactly right. Walkers are the go-to back there. Both areas dislike the Cannons, however!! And yes, trust Lunddudes research. It is thorough!

[Propnut69]

I did a lot of research before I bought my Walker electric downriggers and could not be happier with them.

Smaller and more compact (more metal less plastic) then the others with plenty of power + no belts to break. I can power down with no trouble at all unlike some of the Cannon models.

I know the Scotty's have a big West Coast following but the Walker Electrics Rule on the Great Lakes charter boats.

What do you mean when you say" powering down" are you talking about letting the d/r weight down? or unplugging the unit? I think d/r preference is stickily a regional thing. I see more Cannon's on the gorge then others brand,with Scotty's running a close second. Very few Walkers or Big Jons.

[SuperD]

I think d/r preference is stickily a regional thing.
Maybe. I was introduced to trolling with downriggers using Cannons. I'll fish with any brand because at the end of the day, it's fishing! But I'm a Cannon guy and it is because of all the standard arguments, I like the looks and the function. I wonder how much of brand preference relates to what we're used to. Did your family grow up with Fords or Chevys?

[clawman]

Last week I fished with a guy who has Scotty's on his boat thus have a good comparison with my Cannon DT-5's. I'll keep my Cannon hands down, thank you!
I bought the Cannon because of the ability to release ball with out power and more so because of the P.O.S. on the Digi-troll and up models. The positive ion control is a proven advantage to deep water fishing for salmon. You would pay a quite a bit to buy the Black Box to do the same thing.
I am not familiar with the Walkers.

[Lunddude]

What do you mean when you say" powering down" are you talking about letting the d/r weight down? or unplugging the unit? I think d/r preference is stickily a regional thing. I see more Cannon's on the gorge then others brand,with Scotty's running a close second. Very few Walkers or Big Jons.

Yes, letting the ball down while under power.

When I looked into the Cannons I found out that you had to lower the ball down manually by backing the clutch knob off, I believe Scotty's are the same way. I believe the reason being is that they travel to fast when lowered down under power that the reel will free spool when you stop it, leaving you with 100+ feet of stainless steel cable in a rats nest.

With my Walkers I can power down with the toggle switch with no problem, and the auto stop feature works great too while fighting a fish.

What I like best about the Walkers is that they are compact & easy to operate, along with not being made out of a bunch of plastic parts. Just my .02 worth, to each their own.

[Lunddude]

[QUOTE=clawman
I bought the Cannon because of the ability to release ball with out power [/QUOTE]

Why would that be a benefit? I hit the switch on my Walkers and they power down beautifully on there own. Are you saving some battery life by lowering your Cannons manually?

Outside of all the bulky plastic the Cannons are made of, not being able to power the ball down was the #2 reason I decided not to go with them.

[clawman]

Why would that be a benefit? I hit the switch on my Walkers and they power down beautifully on there own. Are you saving some battery life by lowering your Cannons manually?

Outside of all the bulky plastic the Cannons are made of, not being able to power the ball down was the #2 reason I decided not to go with them.
Lunddude;
Are you just trying to convince RustyMtn Home to buy a Scotty because you have one or carry out a discussion of what people like about a particular brand. By quoting only a portion of my stmt you seem bias, not objective. I also mentioned that the Cannon has positive ion control which is an expensive option to purchase. The Scotty does not offer that.
Since we are pitching one brand over another here goes:
The Scotty uses belts which require maintenance. The Scotty is slower retrieve. The Scotty also uses a plastic housing. Granted the Scotty is lower profile.
Having used both within days of each other I am convinced of my decision.

[sawtooth]

Sounds like everyone here has their favorite and hopefully it is the downrigger brand that they presently own. I have been in boats that that have used each of the brands mentioned in this thread and they each have their pros and cons. The Cannon mag fives I presently own have been good performers for me and I have never had problems with any "cable birds nests" while using the switch to drop the ball down. On the other hand, the fast decent of the Cannons will tangle my dodger with the cable if my setback is under 15 feet. You can solve that problem by stopping the cable every 25 feet or so for 2-3 seconds, which allows the speed of the boat to pull the dodger away from the cable enough to continue your decent. In my book, this adjustment is a small price to pay for Cannons faster retrieval speed. Once again to each their own. Happy trolling.

[Lunddude]

Lunddude;
Are you just trying to convince RustyMtn Home to buy a Scotty because you have one or carry out a discussion of what people like about a particular brand. By quoting only a portion of my stmt you seem bias, not objective. I also mentioned that the Cannon has positive ion control which is an expensive option to purchase. The Scotty does not offer that.
Since we are pitching one brand over another here goes:
The Scotty uses belts which require maintenance. The Scotty is slower retrieve. The Scotty also uses a plastic housing. Granted the Scotty is lower profile.
Having used both within days of each other I am convinced of my decision.

I have WALKERS. Like I said in my original post, before buying I researched the Cannons, Scotty, & Walker and went with the WALKERS.

[dragonfly]

I will give my 2 cents. I use the digi-troll 5s and 10s the main reason is there soft start and stop, ( I had scotty 2106s they are as fast as the cannons but hated there abrupt stop when bringing them up ) they have 3 programmable speeds down and up, push button auto up so there is no having to holding down a button so you can bring in your fish and the downrigger is up, out of the way and waiting to be hooked up, plus you program it where you want it to stop, no relying on water stop so you can run braid, and no beads to mess with. the 10 is stand alone, with a transducer it bottom tracks and has a jigging feature also with the transducer it tells you where bottom is so it's like having an extra depth finder, they are spendy and if I do it over again I would just get the 5s. dfly

[Bduck]

I have WALKERS. Like I said in my original post, before buying I researched the Cannons, Scotty, & Walker and went with the WALKERS.

I like the Walkers. Have 2 that are the 4' models with weight retrieval system and 2 that are 2' models. All have auto stop. Started out with 2 Scotty Manuel's and used them for years. I was in the market to purchase 2 Scotty electrics but further looked into the Walkers. These are smaller than most electrics, they are rugged built with all metal 360 degree swivel bases, this is the only style base that's included with purchase and first direct gear drive built. As I remember their history, they were the first electric downrigger built and may account for why they are more popular in the east. Walker also had its own version of the blackbox for positive ion control but later incorporated this positive ion control into their electric downriggers. Therefore Walkers version of the blackbox is no longer manufactured. Purchases are very reasonably priced vs other manufacturers. Walker, Big Jon, and Cannon are the 3 direct gear drives today with Scotty as a belt drive system. Most of those who own Walkers are very satisfied with their performance as with me. I have nothing to say negatively about the other manufacturers for their functions may be a little different but the end result is still the same.

[Propnut69]

I will give my 2 cents. I use the digi-troll 5s and 10s the main reason is there soft start and stop, ( I had scotty 2106s they are as fast as the cannons but hated there abrupt stop when bringing them up ) they have 3 programmable speeds down and up, push button auto up so there is no having to holding down a button so you can bring in your fish and the downrigger is up, out of the way and waiting to be hooked up, plus you program it where you want it to stop, no relying on water stop so you can run braid, and no beads to mess with. the 10 is stand alone, with a transducer it bottom tracks and has a jigging feature also with the transducer it tells you where bottom is so it's like having an extra depth finder, they are spendy and if I do it over again I would just get the 5s. dfly

Funny little story ,about how abrupt the stop is. . A friend of mine upgraded to the 2106's .First time we used them,we didn't know about this,and the first time I hit the up Switch. Damn weight came up so fast ,that when it stopped,the weight come unsnapped from the d/r,and to the bottom it went. They do have a bit of a learning curve.

[SuperD]

They do have a bit of a learning curve.

As do they all, which is why all tend to swear by the brand that we own, we're used to them and all the others feel ackward and foreign. Heck, I feel the same way about getting on someone else's boat let alone downriggers.

[dragonfly]

most all of the new downriggers will do a good job I have had 1060's, 2106's which were great and for me they have to do 2 things, dependably get the weight from point A to point B and be easy and covenant to use, speed for me isn't a big factor (although if I was ocean salmon fishing in the 300' to 400' range with 15-20lb weights then that would be a plus ) the thing the digi-trolls do that the others don't (last time I checked ) is being able to set your auto stop, and it doesn't matter if you run braid or cable,( they don't rely on the water ) I run my masts fully extended to the side let line out and pull it over with the ball retriever to the side of the boat where I hook up and ''O'' it, that way when I hit auto up and bring in my fish it will be in the exact same spot every time and I can bring it straight over to re clip, so none of this hitting the down button or lever while pulling it over to the boat to get hooked up again. I know scotty can do this with beads but if you run shuttle hawks or stack, the beads get in the way so it's not a useable feature. ( the other thing that is nice about auto stop is if you get off track and the ground is coming up fast you just run and hit the auto up's and every thing comes up automatically you don't have to hold the button down and wait for it to come up and jump to the next one ). the up and down speed is also adjustable, when I am shallow, and out 50+ feet I set it to high, but when deep and have a 5' set back I run it in on med. or lo. so the line doesn't go down to fast and wrap on the cable. these are things along with soft start and stop, the others don't have or offer and may not be a big deal to some but it defiantly makes life easier. dfly

[SuperD]

Shaun, one of my fishing buddies bought the digitrolls and I really didn't like the programmable auto stop at all. We blew a few fuses when fighting fish because the weight came up without stopping. There seemed to be enough slack in how the cable would wind or unwind that in a 100' of travel, there could be a couple feet of difference. The digitroll needs a level wind arm to make the cable wind the same every time.

[dragonfly]

Dave, I use the ss scotty cable on my 4 ( didn't care for the cannon cable) but also have the ss drums and installed the scotty masts which are a lot heavier duty and don't flex like the cannons, don't know if that made the difference. and have never had any problems at all with it not stopping in the same spot even with the kids playing with them, was very impressed having come from using scottys all the time. I talk to others that have them and I have never heard of them having any problems but they all run scotty cable also. mine winds pretty level, it doesn't really count feet it counts drum revolutions, so if it cranks out 20 revolutions it should roll back 20 revolutions so it should never be off by much unless his is miscounting, the magnetic drum pickup is weak, or not lined up . dfly

[Propnut69]

Yes, letting the ball down while under power.

When I looked into the Cannons I found out that you had to lower the ball down manually by backing the clutch knob off, I believe Scotty's are the same way. I believe the reason being is that they travel to fast when lowered down under power that the reel will free spool when you stop it, leaving you with 100+ feet of stainless steel cable in a rats nest.

With my Walkers I can power down with the toggle switch with no problem, and the auto stop feature works great too while fighting a fish.

What I like best about the Walkers is that they are compact & easy to operate, along with not being made out of a bunch of plastic parts. Just my .02 worth, to each their own.

Lunddude,it seems either you have been given bad info,or are mistaken about letting the weight down using Cannon elect's. I have a pair of mag 5's on my boat. I have never had to let the weight down manually. I always use power to let the weight down. I have never had a bird's nest on either the spool on the d/r,or a birds nest on my reel. Scotty's use a brake lever on the spool,it's very easy to use,and I have never had a problem with them ,when fishing with my friends Scotty's. It seems to me the problems you are having ,are due more to operator error then anything else.

[SuperD]

Like I said, it's all in what one is used to. When I use Bduck's Walkers, I feel like the weight just falls off the retrieval bar in free fall and hits the water with great force. It scares me every time I deploy but I'm not used to using it like other Walker owners would be.

[Lunddude]

Lunddude,it seems either you have been given bad info,or are mistaken about letting the weight down using Cannon elect's. I have a pair of mag 5's on my boat. I have never had to let the weight down manually. I always use power to let the weight down. I have never had a bird's nest on either the spool on the d/r,or a birds nest on my reel. Scotty's use a brake lever on the spool,it's very easy to use,and I have never had a problem with them ,when fishing with my friends Scotty's. It seems to me the problems you are having ,are due more to operator error then anything else.

What problems are you talking about? You need to pay closer attention to what your reading in my post.

Once again FYI I have NEVER owned electric Cannons or Scotty's. Before I bought my electric Walkers I had manual Cannons. To me they were bulky and made out of to much plastic. When I decided to go with electric downriggers I researched all of them for several months before deciding to go with the Walkers. Got It?

[mtncat1]

I've had canon down riggers for years and models from uni troll manual's to mag 10 stx's I love the clean design, the ample use of plastics . clean modern design. simple drag system. the choice of using the power down feature or manual clutch. to let down your weight availability of parts and service , positive ion control auto stop price point etc. . never had any problem with any feature on the rigger. and there is no way you can get a rats nest on the spool unless you are free spooling and hit the bottom. as far as the original question asked at the beginning of this thread . you will catch way more fish with a down rigger verses a diver of any kind. with a diver you can never tell tell exactly where your rig is period. plus you don't have any extra weight to fight when you catch .

[Propnut69]

"I believe the reason being is that they travel to fast when lowered down under power that the reel will free spool when you stop it, leaving you with 100+ feet of stainless steel cable in a rats nest".

It's right there as part of your quote. But going back and looking at your post about back spooling,you failed to make it clear you were talking about manuals. I posted my reply as if you were talking about electric's. If you experienced back spooling with a manual,then you must of had no drag at all on the spool and it backed spooled. That is operator error,not the d/r's fault.

[Lunddude]

"I believe the reason being is that they travel to fast when lowered down under power that the reel will free spool when you stop it, leaving you with 100+ feet of stainless steel cable in a rats nest".

It's right there as part of your quote. But going back and looking at your post about back spooling,you failed to make it clear you were talking about manuals. I posted my reply as if you were talking about electric's. If you experienced back spooling with a manual,then you must of had no drag at all on the spool and it backed spooled. That is operator error,not the d/r's fault.

Never had a problem with back spooling on my Cannon manual downriggers.

I was only referring to the problems I had READ ABOUT with the electric Cannons while lowering the ball under power. I was told by sales people that the Cannon electrics (Mag 5) had to be lowered manually because they traveled to fast while lowering the cannon ball under power

[Propnut69]

Well those so called sales people are wrong,wrong,wrong.

[Bduck]

Walker electrics use power for up & down at the same rate of speed. The only time I get a rats nest is not paying attention to the bottom depth, I'm not perfect. That usually happens when I'm getting ready to setup my next rig. I'm use to the way these function. The switches are a 3pos switch with center as off. When going down the switch stays in down position until you as the control stop it. When switching to up position the switch will also stay in that position but it has an autostop so you can reel in your rig.

[RustynMtnHome]

Thanks for al the responses, I got side tracked on another project

Update I did get some Scotty's but not the previous ones mentioned as I couldn't work the deal being it was in AZ. I found two 1109's locally here now the work begins on getting them installed

Thanks again for the spirited debate

[conservationist]

I have a pair of small Walker manual downriggers along with a pair of Shasta Tackle Shuttle Hawks AND about $500 cash still in my wallet to spend on things to get those fish to bite.

And yes, we catch plenty of Kokes, have never had one tangled in the cables and the only time I have to wind the ball up or down is when I decide to change depth.

It's all personal preference.

[froggie]

Rusty,
It's just plan a lot more fun to catch fish without a lot of hardware drag like a diver.

It is really amazing to FEEL the koke shaking like crazy...with divers that is not gonna happen. We started with those, then went to Manual Downriggers. Used Shuttlehawks, so we didn't have to crank them up each time we got a fish. Then we bought a 17' Valco and it came with 4 electric DR...man that was a nice change!!! Our current boat, a FishRite also came with 4 electrics... What else can I say???

[spoons]

It is really amazing to FEEL the koke shaking like crazy...with divers that is not gonna happen. We started with those, then went to Manual Downriggers. Used Shuttlehawks, so we didn't have to crank them up each time we got a fish. Then we bought a 17' Valco and it came with 4 electric DR...man that was a nice change!!! Our current boat, a FishRite also came with 4 electrics... What else can I say???
it sounds like you need to donate the extra 4 electrics to to the spoons kokanee experience. It's not tax deductible, but I'll give you credit for every fish I catch using them. Win, win, right? I have a 50 dollar Lowrance fish finder with a broken transducer I can trade.