Blades on your lures

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Kokanee-Toni

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
377
Location
Graham, WA
I have been wondering about spinner blade, finishes, and colors.

1)I have read that a Colorado blade makes the most noise. Is this the best blade for kokanee, trout?

2)But I have been wondering about hammered vs. smooth finishes?

3)and then those (hammered or smoth) vs. painted blades. Are these better in certain conditions?
 
They say that fish have a brain smaller than a pea. But we can never out think a fish. They make all those blades and finishes because on any given day, that's the only thing they'll take. Make yourself a bead and blade box with a good assortment and you'll be ready for all conditions. You will also start to develop your own set of favorites and high confidence lures.
 
They say that fish have a brain smaller than a pea. But we can never out think a fish. They make all those blades and finishes because on any given day, that's the only thing they'll take. Make yourself a bead and blade box with a good assortment and you'll be ready for all conditions. You will also start to develop your own set of favorites and high confidence lures.

Yes, I have done that.
But that pea sized brain has been conditioned by conditions as well as instinct or aggression.
What I wanted to know if anyone had noticed patterns like hammered or painted blades on cloudy days? Or smooth blades on cloudy days. Water temperature and blades?
 
Yes, I have done that.
What I wanted to know if anyone had noticed patterns like hammered or painted blades on cloudy days? Or smooth blades on cloudy days. Water temperature and blades?

Get and digest "The Master Angler" by Phil Rabiduea, out of print but still avail on amazon and other places.
 
Toni,
I posted a similar question a month or two back and had a couple of responses, but nothing very conclusive. I've done a ton more searching and reading since then and I must admit I haven't come any closer to a real conclusion. In fact, I've actually come to the conclusion that with Kokanee, who we typically agree are biting out of agression rather than feeding, it's all pretty much a guessing game when it comes to which blades work best.

Some brief thoughts on your specific questions:
1) I have no idea which blade makes the most "noise". Noise being, in this case, vibrations which are detected along the lateral line. Is vibration level even the most important factor? Should we instead be paying attention to frequency (hz) or some other unknown characteristic? Presumably the "sounds" put out by a Colorado blade are different from a Dakota blade, or even a "deep cup" Colorado blade, but is one objectively better in all situations? I honestly doubt it. If there is an advantage it's hard to say if it's present in all lakes during any season, etc. The only real good data I've heard is that Colorado blades spin slower than Indiana blades which spin slower than Willow Leaf blades. Since Kokanee trolling is typically done at relatively slow speeds, I am personally going to avoid the Willow Leaf blades.

2) This is one area I feel I can somewhat wrap my head around. I believe a smooth unpainted blade will reflect a lot of light in one angle at a time. A hammered blade will reflect smaller bits of the light in different directions. It's design, I believe the hammered blades probably end up reflecting less light as a hole than the smooth blades. I also believe, although I have no means to test this, that there is probably some effect on the rotation speed due to the extra friction from the additional surface area on the hammered blade. There would also be some effect on the "sound" given off by the blade. Which is best? I think we have all probably caught Kokanee with both types of blades so I'm not sure there's a good answer. I have kinda settled on hammered for unpainted blades under the thought that light in more directions is probably better than more light, but this is essentially something I tell myself to help me make a decision.

3) While polished metal blades are going to reflect light like a mirror in one or several directions, painted blades are going to tend to be a lot more even in it's dispersal of light, depending on the finish. Think of shining a light on a bathroom mirror (smooth metal blade), a disco ball (hammered blade), and a normal wall. The bathroom mirror will bounce the light off at an angle of incidence (I had to look this up to find the precise term) giving you one large spot where the light is focused. The Disco ball will give you lots of smaller spot where the light is focused. A painted wall (assuming it's a relatively flat paint) will give you a much more even distribution of light. A glossier paint will give you a relatively even distribution of light, but there will also be a small amount of the mirror effect as well.

While I can ramble on about it all day, what it means for Kokanee fishing is anyone's guess. We are left with a few facts, as I see them, however:
1) Smooth Blades reflect the most light to the least amount of area at any given moment.
2) Hammered Blades reflect a lot of light to many areas, but not all areas.
3) Painted blades reflect the least light, but reflect light to essentially all areas at any given moment.

My hunch, is that painted blades are not very noticeable as plain metal when a lot of light is present (I.E. near the surface in any lake with this trait decreasing as you get deeper depending on water clarity). In these areas you have a lot of ambient direct light (I.E. the sun on a sunny day and clouds on overcast days) coming from the surface of the water. As you get deeper, the light still comes from the surface, but increasingly it also comes from the light reflected from the particles in the water itself. A metal surface in this case would be reflecting the light from all angles to all angles which would make it increasingly less noticeable. A painted blade won't reflect more light than a metal blade at these depths, but it will reflect a specific color of light. This will give you more of a contrast to help your bait stand out from the surrounding water.

So I guess to answer your 3rd question, painted blades, have an increasing advantage as you go deeper because they contrast (depending on color to an extent) more than a blade that simply reflects all light.

Once you get into color the whole thing becomes even more insane and I imagine the book DLM mentioned above gets into that more into that than I care to. I've read a similar book (What Fish See) which brought up several interesting points, but had a few flaws I won't get into. If I were ordering up a batch of spinner blades (actually I am putting in a hagens order very soon, I just can't finalize my list) I would put a nice mix of metal blades (both nickel/silver and brass/copper/gold) as well as several different colors of painted blades. Maybe even some glow in the dark blades.

If you're still reading this, than you have a lot of patience and probably think I'm a lunatic for thinking this much about spinner blades, but hopefully my theories at least make some sense to someone besides myself. :)
 
Toni,
""I would put a nice mix of metal blades (both nickel/silver and brass/copper/gold) as well as several different colors of painted blades. Maybe even some glow in the dark blades.""
***** And there you have a description of most all of our tackle boxes******
 
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***** And there you have a description of most all of our tackle boxes******

Why do I feel like a scientist who spent a two years and millions of dollars in grants to come to the conclusion that people like cookies. :)
 
I've fished in pitch dark conditions in deep water and caught fish on non glow lures. That in itself should cause us to quit trying to over think it in human terms.
 
Toni,
If you're still reading this, than you have a lot of patience and probably think I'm a lunatic for thinking this much about spinner blades, but hopefully my theories at least make some sense to someone besides myself. :)

I did read it and didn't think you a lunatic. I tried to find the article that I read that talked about the sounds blades made. I did find this on Mepps website http://www.mepps.com/resources/lure-sounds/ There was a mention of sight and sound as an enticer.

Most books and articles suggested are for trout, salmon, and steelhead or bass. I wondered about kokanee being different. I have the "What Fish See" and I have read "The Master Angler".
Personally I have only fished Pierce County's American and Clear Lakes on a regular basis and can only use my experiences from there. I thought there might be more experience or knowledge here on this site.

I have had them hit red at first light then switch off and then hit green then pink. Or something like that. Painted blades, nickel and brass but also 50/50.
My boxes are full. Guess I will get more.
 
That Meps link is very interesting since it has actual audio files of the spinner blades. It shows that larger blades spin slower than smaller blades and therefore produce a lower frequency. Again, what it means for Kokanee fishing is anyones guess.

The color talk related to time of day sparked some thoughts about what photographers call the color temperature of light and how they're present throughout the day and in different lighting conditions. We don't notice the different lighting colors that are present throughout the day because our eyes compensate for it, but the lighting present can change significantly based on various factors. Here's a few different lighting conditions we fish in, their "color temperature" and what it means to us:

Sunrise/Sunset (on a clear day) - 3000-4000 K (More yellows/reds, Less blues)
Clear day,sun above - 5000-6500 K (We'll call this neutral)
Slightly overcast day - 6500-8000 K (trending towards blues and purples)
Heavily overcast day or shade - 9000-10000 K (Many more blues and purples, much less red)

So, to Kokanee, red might show up a lot more around sunrise on a clear day, but may be much less apparent mid-day when we have some of our lovely thick overcast days. This would certainly give at least a little reasoning behind why some colors go hot for a while and then go cold.
 
while the lakes I fish for koke all have a baseline and timing for certain colors and patterns, it does change as conditions change, It's a fliud thing all day, changing with sun intensity and attitude,wind and wind direction,boat traffic, fish depth etc, ..I believe as these dynamics vary different colors become more and less visable and the best way to "stay on the bite" is to keep multiple lures in play. If your running multiple lines and the action slows put a variety back out untill you find the combination. .Not very scientific but as SD points out, more often than not, reason fails us. Case in point, one day last year (4th of July weekend,) very heavy boat traffic hit the lake at noon and the koke quit. I decided not to fight the crowd, since every one knows heavy motor action puts them deep. Began by pulling in my two DR lines,than my lead line leaving only my shallow flat line with no weight and an Arnie. You guessed it, the shallow flat line got hit and stayed hot untill I limited out,midday, in a crowd. Tried it many a crowded day since and it never happened again. Sometimes we try to be too smart by half..
 
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--getting rid of what doesn't work..
--my experience with guides and other fishers using plugs.
--using same size colour, speed, depth.. ie same plugs.. same boat downrigger same depth... both plugs tuned and have no apparent difference.. yet one plug catches the other doesn't.
--it seems to me the plug that does not catch may have some different harmonic sound or characteristic that I cannot detect yet fish can.
--guides seek used plugs that catch fish...
--sell those items that do not work in garage sale.. not to kokaneeforum buddies.
--maybe same thing with popular blades and lures.... that is one's some fishers have much success with and everyone has one in the box yet for some they do not catch.. I'd say if its working for others... sell the one you have and get another.
--when I test lures.. I run them against my go to lure for the day... when trying to eliminate lures.. I run then when anything seems to be working... if no fish then... it goes in the garage sale box.
 
The first year I started making tackle I made a spinner that worked every time out. Not only did it work, it caught 5 different species of fish during the season. Eventually the leader wore out and I saw the whole thing slide into the water with a fish attached. I tried to recreate that spinner numerous times and never had the same kind of luck. The intricate nuiassances detectable to fish must be amazing.
 
The first year I started making tackle I made a spinner that worked every time out. Not only did it work, it caught 5 different species of fish during the season. Eventually the leader wore out and I saw the whole thing slide into the water with a fish attached. I tried to recreate that spinner numerous times and never had the same kind of luck. The intricate nuiassances detectable to fish must be amazing.

I have one hot Arnie(you have a copy) and one consistant spinner similar to a Macks orange flourescent double whammy wedding ring,that always produce.. I baby them and change the leader frequently. Believe I would dive in to get them if I had to. How about a brief description ,or a "similar too"... on your hot spinner..
 
Kokanee Toni if I can add politely its sounds you lack experience every body of water fishes different what works at Green Peter may not work at Wickiup/you should go back and read the Master Angler by Phil Riberdon all your answer are there (you said you read it ) Phil was Mepps developement expert. He is in his 80 's today, very knowelegeable man. The questions you ask about water temp/colors/ sky conditions are all in the book. I was at the Sportsman Show walking down Kokanee alley and was very pleased to see" Fish with Garys Tackle Co. Gary was centering his Product line around Color technologies had three different light shades to use as and example. You'll need and aray of quite a lot of different type blades to do the job for you. I had extremely good day using Indiania Blades this year with excellent results/and was very productive on Lakes colored Blue with Willow Leaf blades at Walalla and Cresent (blue water lakes) good luck.
 

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