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I dont personally feel raising the limit on the kokes is the answer. I believe years ago the limit on the kokanee was 6, in the gorge, it still is in fontenelle. I think the Game and Fish had a method to there madness by lowering the limit.
 
QUOTE=binthere50;38717]Bottom line....increase the limit to 6 or 8 fish per day, 2 limits in possession.
That would save more kokes than anything else......I live in Calif and I love to fish the Gorge, but really, drive 16 hrs one way, spend $2000.00 or more on a 8 day trip and be able to have only 3 fish in possession?.....Hummm, I read this as you wanting the Wyo G&F and the Utah DWR to change the regs,so it would benefit the out of state fisherman? I sure hope that never happens. If you don’t like the regulations on the gorge, then may I suggest you fish lakes that have regulations more to your liking. .and with all the catch and release that goes on ( yes, I'm guilty of it too) many fish die especially later in July/Aug.....Might as well just let fishermen keep more fish and stop fishing when you get a limit... What does this mean? Now that I have caught and keep a limit, I have to quit fishing and go home? Do I just switch tactics and now fish for different fish, and pray that I don’t catch another kokanee?.happier fishermen, Who’s happy?, maybe those of you, that spend 2000.00 and drive 32 hrs,just to keep three fish. But the locals like me that spend lots of money and time fishing the gorge sure won’t be. Less dead and wasted kokes and the final numbers would probably be better than the way it is now......just my 2 cents.[/QUOTE]

yes a higher limit of some type would be awesome, no catch and release and a higher limit perfect.

Why do you think this would be a good regulation? Did you even this give this any thought? Now you want to make it mandatory to keep all caught kokanee?. What happens after I have caught my limit? I asked the same question above. Do I go home, or keep fishing and hope I don’t catch another kokanee? Because now according to you, I have to release that fish, and it doesn’t matter what condition that fish is in. That fish now has to be turned back, and if he goes belly up and becomes a floater oh well!! not my problem right??? Hey I did it the legal way according to you. So changing the regulation now has helped to add to the mortality of released fish, instead of reducing it.

I think if all fisherman (locals and out of staters) changed the way they release kokanee,it would help to reduce morality. Too many times I have seen fish caught, then just (chucked) back into the water. That’s the wrong way to release a fish.
Punbush both you and binthere are looking at this from a out of state perspective, and I respect that. I’m just trying to give a local perspective about catch and releasing kokanee.
 
I would hazard to guess that fish limits are a lot like the speed limits, whatever it is set at, folks will try to maximize or exceed it.

Whether being from out of State or local, I do think the extermely low daily limit combined with no reasonable "in possession" or bag limit is pretty extreme. It pretty much makes anyone that wants to stay at the lake more than one day want to cheat or release fish that otherwise shouldn't be released. If fishermen are eating fish every night or giving them away to others in camp so they can fish again the next day, it isn't changing the number of fish caught and kept than just allowing a 2 limit possession.
 
K, I have a question. We fish the derby; we were out there for all available hours, over 20. We fished for kokes the entire derby. We spoke to a lot of guys fishing. Every team I talked to had put up some huge numbers (Including ours). We did not see one floater either day. Question, do all dead kokes sink?
The reason I ask is, there were well over forty boats fishing just the Buckboard area. If every boat caught 100 fish (4000+ and I think this is light) last weekend, if just one percent were floaters there would have been over 400 fish floating. Keep in mind we did not see a single one floating and we all know the birds will show us where they are.
I do understand that not all dead fish float but some do. I am also guilty of doing the “circle of shame” to pick up a dead fish especially in the hotter months when fishing deep, but I have also caught a lot of kokes with disfigured mouths, hook marks and scars. Are we giving these fish enough credit or do we think they are wimps because when we catch them from 60’ expand their air bladder and let them go just to die.
 
This is great topic and I wish Ryno would chime in, but here's some things. You can look up catch and release survival rates about many species. Some do well, some do not. You are also assuming that when a Koke swims away, then it must be O.K. How do you know it wont die a day, week, or month later ?? Also how long do kokes last in your live well ?? An hour at the most, a lot of times 5 minutes. I have had lake trout in my live well for 6 hours and could have released them. I'm not knocking any one for catching a bunch of fish and releasing them. I'm just sayin' that everyone who catches and releases fish, some are going to die. I have said this many times, if you are that concerned about the well being of fish, then dont go fishing !!
 
We got on this discussion last year, and once again I will bring it up...there simply is no right answer. I believe we have it the best it can be right now. There will always be the fisherman who toss the fish in the water and catch as many as they want because they don't care and don't care to be educated.

All we can do as responsible fisherman who love our resource is to play by the rules. Keep our 3 fish and release the others as safely as we can. We have to know in the back of our minds that some of the fish are going to die regardless of how hard we trie to get them back in the water quick and with the least amount of contact as possible. As long as we are responsible in how we release fish that's all we can do. Enough said.
 
One thing to keep in mind as the comparison keeps coming up about how long fish stay alive in the live well.

How do we really compare staying alive in he live well to staying alive in the lake. That's like comparing apples and oranges to me.

Much more area to swim, the water in the live well is going to warm up faster than in the lake, oxygen levels will be way down even with an air orator going.

At least these things come to mind to me. I'm sure as the summer goes on, water temps rise, heat of the day and mid day catches will increase mortality rates no dought.

I really don't know what the answer is to make it the perfect scenario for all. I too would like to be able to bring home six kokes rather than three. However, I can't unless my wife or daughter is with me with their license and they catch them.

I do know this, there are ways that we all can contribute to helping these fish to have a better survival rate when we do release them.

I don't need to list them, we all know what they are. I just know that all I can do is do my part to help this great fishery we have and not be greedy. thumbsup
 
This is great topic and I wish Ryno would chime in, but here's some things. You can look up catch and release survival rates about many species. Some do well, some do not. You are also assuming that when a Koke swims away, then it must be O.K. How do you know it wont die a day, week, or month later ?? Also how long do kokes last in your live well ?? An hour at the most, a lot of times 5 minutes. I have had lake trout in my live well for 6 hours and could have released them. I'm not knocking any one for catching a bunch of fish and releasing them. I'm just sayin' that everyone who catches and releases fish, some are going to die. I have said this many times, if you are that concerned about the well being of fish, then dont go fishing !!

I'm reluctant to reply as this has been discussed many times in the past, but a couple of anglers/members asked me to at least post my thoughts. Unfortunately there's really no right or wrong answer to the dilemma until some study or data shows what the impacts are. Here's my thoughts and here we go....

I first started thinking about the C&R issue in 2007-08, taking my own personal notes while fishing, and also looking at kokanee captured in reservoir trawls, spawning traps in Sheep Creek, etc (continuing too). To this date, I have never handled a kokanee with a hook scar or damaged mouth or gill structure(s). Just out of curiousity, does anyone else see wounds or scars in their catch? As described here, it's obvious that many kokanee are caught and released, kokanee have extremely soft mouth parts, so hooking wounds or scars should be quite evident. I should also point out that I see them quite often in lake trout, rainbow trout, and smallmouth bass (in order of frequency), while working and fishing on the Gorge. Therefore my personal theory is kokanee C&R mortality is very high. The way I choose to approach this issue is to catch my limit of kokes and move on to another species. I'm not saying that's what everyone should do, but with my appreciation and understanding of the kokanee fishery, that's what I choose to do. Also understand that I'm a generalist- I just like to catch fish, whether it's lake trout, rainbow, smallmouth bass, burbot, or kokanee.

In my literature reviews I have found "zero" data on C&R mortality for kokanee, but as you know a lot of other sportfish species have been studied multiple times. The closest I could come-up with is sockeye, but those studies were directed at spawning fish, which as we know are much tougher when making their final push to produce offspring. A study is needed, and it's been proposed a number of times, and hopefully it's in the near future.

I understand the desires to harvest bigger fish. A 3-year old kokanee measuring 14-17 inches isn't nearly as impressive or filling as a 4-year old measuring 18+ inches. Note: they all taste good though. But also remember there are certain years, like this one, where the 3-year old kokanee is more abundant, so it will take a lot of C&R to get a limit of 4-year olds.

On a final note, not all fish mortalities "float". If the fish comes from shallower depths or comes up on it's own or slowly, it can expel the gas in its bladder during the fight and upon release easily swim down to it's preferred depth to die later. Mortality as a result of C&R is also not immediate. Depending on the what the fish has gone through (based on other trout studies) it can take a few hours or days. Fight time, change in depth or water temperature, hook damage, net type, and even time spent exposed to air (which air temperature also influences) all play a role in the fish's ability to recover from the battle it just encountered. Anglers should also consider the fish's recovery time and how that increases it's likelihood for predation while it's in the recovery state.

Once again, I just wanted to provide my opinion on this topic and my personal approach to the issue, due to my concerns and passion for this awesome kokanee fishery.

Hope it helps some, Ryno
 
great write up on C&R. napalming topic here in the Pac. NW over wild steelhead and sea run salmon.

any of the 3 yr old class spawn in FG?

this years thick as fleas on a coon dog's belly 3 yr old class is next year's 4 yr old monsters. I'll be going next year.
 
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Before we go any farther,I would like to know a few things.

1 Are you a fish biologist,and have you ever seen any studies that have been done by the Wyoming G&F or the Utah DNR on the mortality of released kokanee?

2. What experience level do you have at catching and releasing kokanee? Do you have any practical experience at releasing kokes or are you just listening to what someone told you? There is a right way and a wrong way to release these fish.The wrong way has a very high mortality rate,while the right way will greatly reduces the chance that a released fish will die. I will agree that seeing a trail of dead floating fish, is disturbing.

I'm assuming that your response to this thread,was about the two reports,that both myself(the OP) and halojm posted. Well believe me I know both halojm and his son. both of them as well as me and D-weed have nothing but respect for these fish. We do everything that we can,to insure that a released fish lives to fight another day. So please don't assume that just because we post up about the fish we caught,does mean that we leave a trail of dead fish.
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Since this is your first post on a kokanee forum,and you come in here swinging a mighty big bat.about a very controversial topic.Makes me want to think you might be internet troll. Hope I'm wrong but that is my first impression. i look forward to seeing those studies.

there you go a biologist opinion, it seems to at least put into question that catch and release of any kind is successful as you guys claim , it seems to me that if you guys care as much as you claim about the fishery you woud question the idea of catch and releasing 30 - 50 fish aday,it sounds that it is a possibility that too many of them are not surviving, like i stated earlier its poor sportsmanship if that is a good possibility.seems like you guys are proud to be rocky mountain tackle staff, it seems a company like this should error on the side of caution because it could be seen as you care only about selling tackle.
 
no matter how careful one is in the release of an immature, not fully grown juvenile fish; there is some mortality.

We have NO catch and release in kokanee here since the vast majority are a man created non-natural version of salmon not indigenious to the waters they're in. ALL hooked and brought to the boat must be retained as part of the legal bag limit. There is NO hook removal by man and then the fish is intentionally released back in the water.

Very heated moralistic war here over the "proper" hook and release techniques for wild steelhead and wild salmon. Should they be netted at all? Should they be touched by human hands? Should they be raised out of the water for photos and bragging rights?
And these are ALL adult fish headed to spawn.

Florida now has some of the toughest hook and release laws in the nation on their indigenous species such as their groupers.

I have a problem with someone publically stating how many C&R kokanees they had turned loose knowing that a percentage of those fish would die and be wasted when those could very well have been kept at part of daily bag limit. Just my opinion.

Both my grandfathers pitch forked fall run salmon out of a small stream that ran through their properties. I even took part in the process up to the age of 10. All the fish were used for garden fertilizer. 60 years ago.

As a kid and juvenile growing up, the family caught hundreds of pounds of salmon every year, hook and line. Most we ate, probably 1/3 of it freezer burned and my parents threw it out as garden fertilizer on the farm.

Not a salmon or steelhead left in those streams that I fished as a kid now.

Time for this C&R to disappear in most species, even the bass tournaments are discussing the impact years of live well retention have had, the kill off of large bass.

There will be NO survival of large kokanee in FG and other lakes/reservoirs unless the juvenile classes of fish are protected. There is NO effective spawning in FG unless there are adult mature kokanee that make it to the spawning beds.

Fisherman have to learn to self regulate and self protect their fish assets and themselves or the taxpayer will do it for them by F&G fiscal budget cuts. We now have almost no biology staff or F&G wardens here now due to massive budget cuts.

Who wants to go to an FG that has burbot snakes only?
 
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there you go a biologist opinion, it seems to at least put into question that catch and release of any kind is successful as you guys claim , it seems to me that if you guys care as much as you claim about the fishery you woud question the idea of catch and releasing 30 - 50 fish aday,it sounds that it is a possibility that too many of them are not surviving, like i stated earlier its poor sportsmanship if that is a good possibility.seems like you guys are proud to be rocky mountain tackle staff, it seems a company like this should error on the side of caution because it could be seen as you care only about selling tackle.

First off I want to say,that Rocky Mountain Tackle has absolutely nothing to do with my feelings towards catch and release,and I think it was a low blow on your part to even bring them into this discussion.

Secondly I would like to thank Ryno for posting his thoughts on this topic. I have great respect for both his knowledge as a biologist and a fellow fisherman. I agree with some of the things he said,and disagreed with other things said. No where in any of my postings did I say that all fish released would not die. I do know for a fact that a fish caught and released has a better chance to live,then a fish caught,kept and put into a cooler.But as Ryno pointed out,there is just not enough data yet to prove what the mortality rate is. Maybe some day there will be . But until that data is available i will continue to release fish ,the way that i do it now. As i have said before knowing the proper way to release kokes goes along way to helping them survive after being caught.
 
Interesting topic. As the owner of a large fishing web site I've seen this topic come up hundreds of times. Here is what we know. C&R, culling is supported by every major Kokanee organization, CIFFI and Kokanee Power as well as the heavily biologist backed F&G, G&F and Wildlife Management branch of every state government that sanctions tourneys. By the very nature of promoting and permitting tourneys you encourage culling. Since no known scientific papers exist on the subject, as a fishing site owner we simply acquiesce to those who should be in the know as far as fish numbers and survival goes.

It would be my hope everyone works as hard as they can to learn about and promote the well being of our resources. Fish survival is always higher if the fish are not removed from the water and are not handled in the release process. We know that water surface temps have a lot to do with survival of many released species. In my personal experience, I catch very few Kokanee at the Gorge or anywhere else that have healed hook wounds from previous releases. As I noted above, none of this has stopped the support of culling by the group previously mentioned and they are the final arbiters of our fishing regs. Short of that, fishing is a blood sport and each and every person here has to make up their own minds what they want to be responsible for.

101chromefish101
 

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