Kokanee research

[Pzak]

First I would like to make it clear that I absolutely enjoy the quality of the Kokanee fishing in SW Idaho. The fishery has been clearly managed well by the agencies in charge, and I seldom leave the reservoirs without fish. But, I have always had an interest in the research and implementations of the fish stocking that takes place at Arrowrock and Lucky Peak.

Does anyone know where I can find information on the goals of Fish and Game and Idaho Power are for Lucky Peak and Arrowrock. Or, how the numbers of fish to be placed is determined. I feel I have a pretty good understanding of both fisheries and have found that over the past couple of years, the fewer, but larger fish have come from Arrowrock and the cookie cutter 16 inchers from Peak. I don't want to over simplify this however, and maybe its just me.

Looking at the past three years of stocking numbers, AR received roughly 11,000 Kokanee. LP, over 526,000. I checked out the size of both at full pool and found that AR was listed at 3150 acres while LP is listed at 2820. I know that maintenance of the dams and the expected water levels plays a major part in the fish and money the agencies put in. What I am looking for is how the two agencies work together to determine the number of fish that are stocked and what the expected or target outcome is. I have been very interested in learning what Fish and Game expects from both lakes in regard to the quality of the fishery.

Anyone know anything interesting...

 

[SuperD]

As an uneducated guy reading the stats, I'd draw the following conclusions.

1) AR has a very healthy, self populating fishery from lake streams and tributaries.

2) LP has a huge predation problem.

 

[Pzak]

Hey SuperD,

I am pretty sure that Arrowrock is planted with triploids. I don't know if there is any natural repopulation going on. One more thing I would like to learn from someone in the know.

As for Lucky Peak, the fingerlings and fry they put in may get worked over by the rainbows, but there isn't much else that would hunt them. No mac's and very few bulls in the res....

 

[kok-head]

both lakes do suffer big losses from predation, it’s hard to know which species are responsible for the most damage, I have hooked many northern pikeminnows in both AR and LP and on more than a few fishing trips have seen small bows and koks in their mouths

 

[SuperD]

If Arrowrock is really only getting planted 11,000 fingerlings for a lake that size, they are planting bait not a koke fishery.

 

[kok-head]

here are some numbers for 2012 stocking from the fish and game website:




LUCKY PEAK RESERVOIR

Historical fish stocking for ALL FISH TYPES:

05/05/2012 TRIPLOID TROUTLODGE KAMLOOP CATCHABLE (6 inches+) 600
05/03/2012 TRIPLOID TROUTLODGE KAMLOOP CATCHABLE (6 inches+) 20,240
05/02/2012 EARLY SPAWNER KOKANEE FRY (0-3 inches) 200,910
04/03/2012 HAYSPUR RAINBOW FINGERLING (3-6 inches) 207,575
02/24/2012 TRIPLOID TROUTLODGE KAMLOOP FINGERLING (3-6 inches) 36,960




ARROWROCK RESERVOIR

Historical fish stocking for ALL FISH TYPES:

10/05/2012 TRIPLOID TROUTLODGE KAMLOOP CATCHABLE (6 inches+) 400
09/14/2012 TRIPLOID TROUTLODGE KAMLOOP CATCHABLE (6 inches+) 12,060
09/13/2012 TRIPLOID TROUTLODGE KAMLOOP CATCHABLE (6 inches+) 14,560
09/12/2012 TRIPLOID TROUTLODGE KAMLOOP CATCHABLE (6 inches+) 11,760
06/27/2012 TRIPLOID TROUTLODGE KAMLOOP CATCHABLE (6 inches+) 14,300
06/27/2012 TRIPLOID TROUTLODGE KAMLOOP FINGERLING (3-6 inches) 9,100
05/02/2012 EARLY SPAWNER KOKANEE FRY (0-3 inches) 50,130
04/25/2012 HAYSPUR RAINBOW TRIPLOID FINGERLING (3-6 inches) 41,730

 

[Pzak]

Kok Head,

I dont know how I missed the difference in the Kokanee numbers at AR. Good catch...(pun intended). Still a considerable difference however. I have to believe that the food source is very consistent between the two bodies of water. If the goal is to have bigger fish at AR, I would prefer they stock chinook and leave the koks in LP.

 

[sawtooth]

I talked with a fisheries biologist at Fish and Game about the numbers at both lakes mentioned and he said that Arrowrock has a healthy native population of kokes coming from both forks of the Boise River. Lucky Peak has close to zero natural repopulation due to the warm water killing most of the fry returning to the lake from Mores Creek. On very wet years some of the Mores creek fish will help in repopulation. Those fish that try to spawn in the lake are usually unsuccessful, hence the larger number of planted fry in L.P.

 

[Pzak]

Thanks Sawtooth. I tried finding a tech report from F&G on their site but could only locate reports from the 70's and 80's. If you or anyone knows were to locate more recent info and can post a link I would appreciate it. About three years ago I saw the middle fork arm packed with red koks but had no idea that they were actually spawning. I don't know where I had heard that most of the fish were sterile. Very interesting. Thanks.

 

[sawtooth]

Pzak, If you can get a copy of the new Fisheries Management plan from the fish and game you might get some of your questions answered about what direction the fish and Game plan to go with the two lakes. Some discussion was covered in this older thread from earlier this year. Here is the link. http://www.kokaneefishingforum.com/...read.php?5909-Time-to-let-your-Voice-Be-Heard

 

[Pzak]

Thanks Sawtooth, exactly what I was looking for. Will give them a call on Weds.

 

[sawtooth]

Pzak,
Found this on the Fish and Game website. Go to page 158 for the two lakes in question. https://fishandgame.idaho.gov/content/sites/default/files/fmppart2.pdf

 

[Pzak]

Sawtooth, interesting reading. I liked that they are planning to manage LP for 14"+ fish and noticed that Anderson Ranch had an "emphasis" on Kokanee. It will be very interesting to see what numbers they put in all three reservoirs this spring. Either way, I hope everyone has a great upcoming season.

 

[Mojo]

Hey SuperD,

I am pretty sure that Arrowrock is planted with triploids. I don't know if there is any natural repopulation going on. One more thing I would like to learn from someone in the know.

As for Lucky Peak, the fingerlings and fry they put in may get worked over by the rainbows, but there isn't much else that would hunt them. No mac's and very few bulls in the res....

There may still be Macks in Lucky Peak. Found this on the F&G Website...

LUCKY PEAK RESERVOIR

Historical fish stocking for OTHER TROUT from 1967 through 2013:

Date Stocked Species Type Size Number
Stocked
04/14/1998 LAKE TROUT ADULTS 1,876
05/30/1997 LAKE TROUT CATCHABLE (6 inches+) 17,150
09/27/1996 LAKE TROUT FINGERLING (3-6 inches) 33,180
11/02/1995 LAKE TROUT FINGERLING (3-6 inches) 25,000
10/13/1993 SPLAKE FINGERLING (3-6 inches) 5,625

 

[Pzak]

Mojo,
I don't know if there are any Macs still in LP or not. I would love to know though. I will make it a point to ask a bio the next time F&G has a check station up there. Maybe someone on the forum is in the know, or has asked someone recently.

 

[jimbojump]

Hey guys...we have had an ongoing discussion about Macs in LP and obviously they were stocked for several years...I have never caught one there but I always wonder what the fish are marking at 180 feet...and not just fish but BIG fish.....they are the only species reportedly in there I would think to find at those depths...targeting them however...may be a challenge...I have tried a few times...but I'm no Mac chaser...I have heard stories of people accidently landing one...so I think its doable...

 

[Pzak]

Jimbo,

I have marked some fish deep in years past but nothing that I can remember over the past few. I agree that macs would be the most likely species sitting down there. If F&G put macs in last in '98, there would have to be some natural reproduction going on for them to still be around. I know that the juveniles would have to be taken accidentally on kok gear but I have never heard of this happening. I know that in places like the Gorge, it happens pretty freq. I would really like to see F&G get serious about Anderson Ranch, and maybe stock it with macs to control the koks. Would be a fun fishery closer than McCall, for me anyway. I am not a biologist, and don't know what the downstream implications would be, just a random thought.

 

[Mojo]

Pzak, Lake Trout (Mackinaw) live a very long time. In lakes such as Lucky Peak they wold be primarily piscavorous, and could be expected to live 25 to 40 years (with a maximum reported age of 50 years), and reaching significant size. One of the reasons it is important to release mature fish in lakes like McCall is it takes years for them to reach maturity. I do not expect a population to ever be self sustaining in Lucky Peak however...

You might want to check out www.fishbase.org for more information on different fish species. It is a good reference site.

 

[kodiak1]

I would rather see them plant Chinook, as they did in the past. I believe, reading their reports, that they discontinued this because they are predatorial and they were carefully regulating the escapement of kokes. Since they have abandoned that, bring the big boys back! I know of some guys that hammered big Chinook during that period of time. They are well established in Coeur d' Alene and the kokanee population has come back big time. Mike

 

[Allyn S]

Macks would not be a good thing for LP and AR in my opinion. There is enough predation from those above the water to manage the pop. We are not getting the quality of fishing that AR has been because they are doing it wrong. Why take the risk of screwing it up? Also don't think F&G would want to add any competition to the Bull Trout populations in those lakes.

If they were looking for a lake to do something like that with then I am with kodiak on Chinook (preferably triploids that are sterile so you could manage them better if necessary) in Anderson would be ok.

Lucky Peak and esp. Arrowrock are routinely kicking out limits of 17-18" koks. Why would you want to roll the dice on something and try and add a predator into the mix. When you are limiting on 18" koks, odds are anything you are gonna do will be a negative from that. Be happy we have what we do. You want to catch Lakers, go to McCall or Stanley. Knock your socks of after them there.