I noticed that all the kokes I've caught this year have more of a white meat like trout. The ones I've caught in the past were more pink like salmon should be. Will their meat turn pink later in the season? Or is this a diet related issue?
question about eating kokes
- Thread starter Busspass
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Excaliber
Well-known member
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I'm not sure why the meat is so white. Maybe it's not a Kokanee. Every Koke I've ever caught or seen has been orange.
Post some pics if you have any.
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White meated Kokes I don't think so. If there white meated there not Kokanee. Sorry Buzzpass- next time stay away from the booze. No, next time you think you have caught a Kokanee with white meat show the fish to someone who may know the difference between Kokanee and trout. There is I think a high bred trout that has know stripes like are Rainbows that look different than the rain bows. I do know there is a spieces of Salmon that is white meated. I caught them around the Sanwan Islands in washington. There better eating than the Orange Colored we all are use to catching.101chromefish101
skookum9
Well-known member
I am only a fisherman and not a biologist, but it is my best understanding that the meat in fish turns pink or red for the very same reason that a flamingo appears to be pink instead of white. It is completely diet related. The species of a fish will make it capable of turning pink but not make it pink by necessity. Kokanee can be white meated if there is something lacking in their diet, and yes I have caught some of them and yes they were definitely kokanee.
Kokanee are predominately plankton feeders, with the exception of some smaller insects in some cases. There are two kinds of plankton, phyto-plankton and zoo-plankton. Phyto is a plant type of plankton that would be much the same as us eating a salad instead of a steak. There are none of the necessary enzymes or whatever it is that is needed to turn the meat of fish pink. In zoo-plankton though, there is, and this is why kokanee are typically red meated. This is also why kokanee in one body of water will be a different shade of red or pink that the kokanee from another body of water. Either the zoo-plankton has a different quality or quantity of the needed enzymes or, the fish in one lake may need to feed on the phyto-plankton more so than the other fish do.
Other species of fish like trout, char and other salmon usually get their red tint to their meat by their consumption of crustations of a larger size. These can be crawfish, shrimp, prawns or fresh water scud, among other things I suppose. I usually use the color of a fishes meat to give me some idea of how long the fish I am about to eat has been away from a hatchery. But nowadays that seems to be changing to as the ODFW is now feeding their stock fish a food that has this coloring agent in it, at least at some of the hatcheries.
Again, I am no expert, but this is my best understanding of the diet/meat color relationship. I have seen many people make mistakes identifying fish, some as wild as thinking that a brook trout was a rainbow trout, and visa versa. If you doubt what you have been catching to be kokanee then it would be wise to find someone like you fish and game representative to confirm the identity. But if you are sure that what you are catching are kokanee, then there probably is just some dietary insufficiency for them. Hopefully, this would only be caused by a temporary lack of access to the zoo-plankton and not a complete lack of their presence. Things like the water temp or light conditions not being compatible for the koke's where the zoo-plankton happen to be hiding. It would be interesting to see if this coloring problem is still an issue throughout the rest of the year or not. If you can, try to keep an eye out for any changes or lack thereof.
Happy fishing!
Kokanee are predominately plankton feeders, with the exception of some smaller insects in some cases. There are two kinds of plankton, phyto-plankton and zoo-plankton. Phyto is a plant type of plankton that would be much the same as us eating a salad instead of a steak. There are none of the necessary enzymes or whatever it is that is needed to turn the meat of fish pink. In zoo-plankton though, there is, and this is why kokanee are typically red meated. This is also why kokanee in one body of water will be a different shade of red or pink that the kokanee from another body of water. Either the zoo-plankton has a different quality or quantity of the needed enzymes or, the fish in one lake may need to feed on the phyto-plankton more so than the other fish do.
Other species of fish like trout, char and other salmon usually get their red tint to their meat by their consumption of crustations of a larger size. These can be crawfish, shrimp, prawns or fresh water scud, among other things I suppose. I usually use the color of a fishes meat to give me some idea of how long the fish I am about to eat has been away from a hatchery. But nowadays that seems to be changing to as the ODFW is now feeding their stock fish a food that has this coloring agent in it, at least at some of the hatcheries.
Again, I am no expert, but this is my best understanding of the diet/meat color relationship. I have seen many people make mistakes identifying fish, some as wild as thinking that a brook trout was a rainbow trout, and visa versa. If you doubt what you have been catching to be kokanee then it would be wise to find someone like you fish and game representative to confirm the identity. But if you are sure that what you are catching are kokanee, then there probably is just some dietary insufficiency for them. Hopefully, this would only be caused by a temporary lack of access to the zoo-plankton and not a complete lack of their presence. Things like the water temp or light conditions not being compatible for the koke's where the zoo-plankton happen to be hiding. It would be interesting to see if this coloring problem is still an issue throughout the rest of the year or not. If you can, try to keep an eye out for any changes or lack thereof.
Happy fishing!
Thanks Skookum9,
I do drink too much when I'm fishin.... But not that much! I'm POSITVE these have been kokes. I'm not a total tard I promis. They had maybe the slightest (and I mean slightest) hint of orange but nothing like the tasty kokes I've caught in the prior years. As you can see i this pic it's a koke. note the scales on my tackle box. Can't really see it's back very well but it was the classic blue/green. It was from Luky Peak. Maybe all that water fluctuation kept them from eatin the good stuff? I dunno. Anywho I hope my next batch tastes beter.
I do drink too much when I'm fishin.... But not that much! I'm POSITVE these have been kokes. I'm not a total tard I promis. They had maybe the slightest (and I mean slightest) hint of orange but nothing like the tasty kokes I've caught in the prior years. As you can see i this pic it's a koke. note the scales on my tackle box. Can't really see it's back very well but it was the classic blue/green. It was from Luky Peak. Maybe all that water fluctuation kept them from eatin the good stuff? I dunno. Anywho I hope my next batch tastes beter.
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Trollin-Fools
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I don't know but when we catch these we call them small rainbow trout.
FiliIslander
Active member
Hey Busspass im no biologist either but ive been fishing long enough to know that is a not a kok. That is a hatchery stocked trout. I was just at Lucky Peak Tuesday and caught 5 of those. All about 8-10 inches. I threw all of them back. Fish and game stocked a bunch of those little bastards up there
anyways every single kok ive caught has been a beautiful orange/pink in color. There is only one white meated salmon that I know of and that's a White King in the waters of Alaska. They are very rare to catch but are considered a trophy in Alaska. I lived in Alaska and had the chance to catch one. The gill netters would catch them on occasion and they would sell at the stores for over $20-$25 a pound.
anyways every single kok ive caught has been a beautiful orange/pink in color. There is only one white meated salmon that I know of and that's a White King in the waters of Alaska. They are very rare to catch but are considered a trophy in Alaska. I lived in Alaska and had the chance to catch one. The gill netters would catch them on occasion and they would sell at the stores for over $20-$25 a pound.Well ****. I wish you guys could see the back of this thing though. I swear it's a koke. I've never seen scales come off trout so easily either. But it does explain why it umm... well.... tasted like a trout I'm an idiot. Anything I should be looking for to identify a koke from a hatchery trout?
I'm an idiot. Anything I should be looking for to identify a koke from a hatchery trout?
sawtooth
IDAHO Kokanee Forum Moderator
Definately a hatchery rainbow. As far as the white chinook, I have caught several near Port Hardy, Vancouver Island, BC. They are much oiler than the red meat Chinook which I prefer. Hey Trollin fool heading to the lake this week? pm sent
FiliIslander
Active member
Busspass one very distinct difference is the heads are different on a kok vs a trout. Plus koks don't have spots like that fish you caught. Anyways keep going for them man you will catch them up there and you will know the difference. Oh plus they fight harder and jump more than trout.
sawtooth
IDAHO Kokanee Forum Moderator
Look for spots on the tail and dorsal for rainbow. Kokes don't have spots on tail and dorsal. They do have some faint spots on the back. Hatchery trout also have a rounder nose, from hitting the side of their runways and tanks.laugh hyst
skookum9
Well-known member
Busspass,
The photo isn't good enough for me to tell much about the fish that you have in it with any certainty. I can tell you that the orangish hue to the fins looks kokaneeish but I have also seen that sometimes on trout. And the fact that you say the scales were all over the place, that is definitely a kokanee trait and not a sign of a healthy trout. And the scales that I can see in the photo that are glued to the tackle box just scream kokanee. I don't see any of the coloring of a rainbow but with the camera angle and the shine on the fish, that's not impossible to miss. You don't have the tail in the photo so I can't tell by that. The comment about a rounder nose doesn't mean anything to me because I can't tell how round the nose is by your photo since the fish's head is turned toward the camera. And I've caught plenty of kokanee that have a lot of spots, even though most kokanee don't have any, or at least very few, so I don't think that tells you much either. Now I do agree with the spots on the fins comment, I don't remember ever seeing spots on the fins of kokanee. But, if you've caught kokanee before and you know what they are, and you've caught rainbow trout before and you know what they are, I don't see how you could mistake the identity of the two. I am impressed, based upon what I see in the photo, how certain others here seem to be that this is a rainbow trout. It looks very little like a rainbow to me, but without seeing it in person, or at least a better pic of it, I don't see how anyone can be so certain that you are wrong about your fish. Before you begin to doubt yourself too much, I would recommend that you investigate this a little further for yourself. From what you've described about the scales, I find it hard to believe that this is a trout at all. Maybe the next time you catch some of these fish, you can take a photo of them laying flat on a board, and try to keep from getting the shiny glare from their scales as well. I wish I lived a little closer, I'd like to investigate this myself. I'm pretty confident that I can tell the difference between an Oncorhynchus Nerka and an Oncorhynchus Mykiss, or a Salmo Gairdneri or Irideus either for that matter. I do like my fish. Of course, Salvelinus Fontinalis will always have my heart, a prettier or better tasting fish does not exist.
The photo isn't good enough for me to tell much about the fish that you have in it with any certainty. I can tell you that the orangish hue to the fins looks kokaneeish but I have also seen that sometimes on trout. And the fact that you say the scales were all over the place, that is definitely a kokanee trait and not a sign of a healthy trout. And the scales that I can see in the photo that are glued to the tackle box just scream kokanee. I don't see any of the coloring of a rainbow but with the camera angle and the shine on the fish, that's not impossible to miss. You don't have the tail in the photo so I can't tell by that. The comment about a rounder nose doesn't mean anything to me because I can't tell how round the nose is by your photo since the fish's head is turned toward the camera. And I've caught plenty of kokanee that have a lot of spots, even though most kokanee don't have any, or at least very few, so I don't think that tells you much either. Now I do agree with the spots on the fins comment, I don't remember ever seeing spots on the fins of kokanee. But, if you've caught kokanee before and you know what they are, and you've caught rainbow trout before and you know what they are, I don't see how you could mistake the identity of the two. I am impressed, based upon what I see in the photo, how certain others here seem to be that this is a rainbow trout. It looks very little like a rainbow to me, but without seeing it in person, or at least a better pic of it, I don't see how anyone can be so certain that you are wrong about your fish. Before you begin to doubt yourself too much, I would recommend that you investigate this a little further for yourself. From what you've described about the scales, I find it hard to believe that this is a trout at all. Maybe the next time you catch some of these fish, you can take a photo of them laying flat on a board, and try to keep from getting the shiny glare from their scales as well. I wish I lived a little closer, I'd like to investigate this myself. I'm pretty confident that I can tell the difference between an Oncorhynchus Nerka and an Oncorhynchus Mykiss, or a Salmo Gairdneri or Irideus either for that matter. I do like my fish. Of course, Salvelinus Fontinalis will always have my heart, a prettier or better tasting fish does not exist.
Idahokanee
Active member
busspass,
Although most of your questions have already been answered (ie. they never have spots on the tail, and the kokes heads are more pointed), I have caught a few Trout/Kokes that can only be explained as a Hybrid, which in itself is basically impossible since rainbow trout and kokes spawn at different times of the year. Lake Trout spawn in the fall though (like kokes), so I guess that's one possibility for an occasional oddity.
But, the one you have is definitely a trout. Some times the lake rainbows can have very silvery scales which looks a lot different than river run rainbows.
Don't sweat the mistake too much, I've had one of those things in my hands before and had to stare at it for 10 minute to ponder what the heck it was.)
Although most of your questions have already been answered (ie. they never have spots on the tail, and the kokes heads are more pointed), I have caught a few Trout/Kokes that can only be explained as a Hybrid, which in itself is basically impossible since rainbow trout and kokes spawn at different times of the year. Lake Trout spawn in the fall though (like kokes), so I guess that's one possibility for an occasional oddity.
But, the one you have is definitely a trout. Some times the lake rainbows can have very silvery scales which looks a lot different than river run rainbows.
Don't sweat the mistake too much, I've had one of those things in my hands before and had to stare at it for 10 minute to ponder what the heck it was.
)
fishslayer13
Well-known member
Thats one of Idaho's Triploid rainbows from the Hayspur hatchery.
It has the wrong head,wrong body shape, front fin is yellow and looks to have a clipped dorsal fin. Many other traits seperate it from a koke.
Nasty eating fish !
It has the wrong head,wrong body shape, front fin is yellow and looks to have a clipped dorsal fin. Many other traits seperate it from a koke.
Nasty eating fish !
SilverBullets
Super Moderator
Yep, my first impresssion was hatchery trout... (head shape, spotted tail/fins, flat nose.) Alot of times you can also see the difference in the shape of the tail as kokanee have a more pronounced "V". What depth were you picking them up? Generally kokes hang out below trout due to their temperature preference.
Hey Busspass im no biologist either but ive been fishing long enough to know that is a not a kok. That is a hatchery stocked trout. I was just at Lucky Peak Tuesday and caught 5 of those. All about 8-10 inches. I threw all of them back. Fish and game stocked a bunch of those little bastards up there
Most of the White Meat Kings along the Alaskan shoreline are feeders from B.C. We target them off of Anchor Point above Homer and they are the best eating Salmon in the world!
From the pic it's almost impossible to tell what the fish is but we know it has a white mouth so it's not a King. 101chromefish101
