Downrigger Question

[Rafting4fun]

Hello gents. I'm new to forum and have been browsing a bit looking for an answer to my q's. If someone could plz direct me to a thread or other related info I would really appreciate it.
About a wk ago I caught 26 kokes @ AR. Lots of double's on the DR at about 50'.
Fished LP a few days ago and caught all my kokes on Leaded line while my father-in-law was using a green type of dipsy diver and doing fairly well. Night crawlers and corn worked for us.
My question is compounded. I have seen leaded line formulas but not as they relate to different weight core's. At 2.0 mph and out six colors (20' per color 36lb line) I have no idea how deep I was. I'm trying to figure that out as it produced all my fish at that depth.
At "AR" I had several double's off the downrigger, however; at LP not one release. I put the ball in the middle of several schools and no enchilada. I also noticed my DR is making an unusual ---for lack of a better description-- drone buzzing sound. I have not measured the any electrical activity yet as I need to find an ohm meter. I tried several different distances behind the DR and changed to several different setups. I am amazed I did not get one release. I am puzzled and just wondered if any one has run up against this.
Why would it work so well at AR and not one release at LP????
I hope i'm in the right place to ask this and if its wrong or i missed the answer thread, I apologize... take care.. and thanks for all the good info you guys share.... John

 

[DLM]

First, I think the sound you hear is the downrigger cable singing to you. This is normal and will occur at various times, different speeds, wind directions etc. It does not happen every trip out and from my experience does not affect the fish. If you are using braid instead of cable on your downrigger then I have no idea what the sound is. (braid does not sing)

I would suggest that when you are trolling you troll just above the school, not through them. You should get more hits.

Why would it work so well at AR and not one release at LP???? Welcome to kokanee fishing. The lack of hits may have nothing at all to do with the downrigger, it may be weather, speed, color, scent, lure,..........

To eliminate your worry's about electrical current switch to braided line on the downrigger. The pro's and con's of electrical current and black boxes is an entirely different topic with strong opinions on each side and fully covered on other threads. Use the search function and you should find enough on this subject to make your head spin.

I am in Oregon and have never fished the lakes you mention but I am sure others will join with their local knowledge perspective.

 

[SuperD]

Since the downriggers produced once, I don't think it was an electrical issue. Fish like it different everyday. In your case, I would say you needed to play with set backs from the ball. Some days they like it close and some days a farther set back works better.

 

[Mojo]

Since the downriggers produced once, I don't think it was an electrical issue. Fish like it different everyday. In your case, I would say you needed to play with set backs from the ball. Some days they like it close and some days a farther set back works better.

I totally agree, and would also throw out there varying speed as well.

 

[Rafting4fun]

speed

I tried several different trolling speeds. From 1.1 to 2.2.. on this day 2.0 was great for leaded line and my father in laws green thingy (dipsy diver). I tried 5' back from the ball up to 20yds. I took the setup off my leaded line and tried it behind the downrigger with ZERO luck. I tried turning a lot and ran out of ideas. I also tried trolling on top of the schools, middle, and the bottom... I had better luck at Anderson trolling near the bottom of the schools which was another new experience for me as top in the past has been best.
I'm just curious and thought I would throw the questions out and I appreciate all the responses. I will keep trying and adding ideas techniques to my experiences.... J many thanks

 

[SilverBullets]

101welcomw Some days are like that...the next time out it could be completly opposite. It appears you allready know how valuable the dowrigger can be...stick with it! Knowing exactly what depth your at puts it WAY ahead of the divers, leaded line and in-line weights.

 

[DowntownBrowns]

I have had the same experience at Anderson, they seem to hit the best near the bottom or even below where they are marking on the FF.

 

[redmanjr1]

I had a similar experience at AR this past weekend. On one rig we were using a jet diver with a UV sling blade and pink hootchie. It caught many fish. I put that same exact rig on one of the downriggers (minus the jet diver of course) and I think it may have brought in only one fish. Switched to a chart green assasin spinner and the fish started hitting while they continued to hit the pink hootchie on the jet diver rig. I have no idea why. It's just one of the many quirks to fishing, especially for Kokanee. They can be one of the most finicky fish out there when they want to be. Good luck.

Bob

 

[kodiak1]

A true and tried method of checking your lead core line depths is quite simple: in an area with a nice sand bottom, gradually troll into increasingly shallow water, and just wait until it "grabs" bottom. By the way, the pound test of lead core line does not have an impact on depth. Mike

 

[SuperD]

By the way, the pound test of lead core line does not have an impact on depth. Mike

Say what? Heavier lead doesn't sink more? It would be a shear miracle if surface tension of the heavier line was an exact compensation for weight.

 

[DLM]

I had a similar experience at AR this past weekend. On one rig we were using a jet diver with a UV sling blade and pink hootchie. It caught many fish. I put that same exact rig on one of the downriggers (minus the jet diver of course) and I think it may have brought in only one fish. Switched to a chart green assasin spinner and the fish started hitting while they continued to hit the pink hootchie on the jet diver rig. I have no idea why. It's just one of the many quirks to fishing, especially for Kokanee. They can be one of the most finicky fish out there when they want to be. Good luck.

Bob

I have never used a jet diver or any other type of diver. Could it be that the diver itself is imparting some kind of action to the slingblade, maybe adding vibration? How far is you blade set back from the diver? To my feeble mind if the only thing different is the diver, then the diver must be the difference?

 

[SilverBullets]

My question is compounded. I have seen leaded line formulas but not as they relate to different weight core's. At 2.0 mph and out six colors (20' per color 36lb line) I have no idea how deep I was. I'm trying to figure that out as it produced all my fish at that depth.


In the "Trollers Handbook" by Ray Rychnovsky there's a chart showing trolling depth for each color (each 30 feet) of leadcore line. If your trolling speed is 2mph your depth is then 5.7 feet for each color of lead-core. With three colors of lead-core out (remember this book states one color is 30 feet) you multiply that number (5.7) by three and your trolling 17.1 feet deep. According to this...your 6 colors out (20 feet per color) equals 120feet. Going by the book if 120 feet of line was used (four 30' colors) the depth at 2.0 mph comes out to 22.8 Feet.
The book also says that you might have to adjust for the different weight lines. Because of the differences in line weight the troll depth of lead-core line from different manufacturers or of different strengths will not be exact.

 

[Rafting4fun]

colors

You guys are awesome and I really do appreciate the input. BTW, at Anderson in the am I was doing better on Leaded Line. Around 11:30 the action changed to the downrigger and the fish (boat pressure) (Heat) what ever made them go deeper , they were hitting at 50' that day. The magic for me was a dodger and pink/red hootchies tipped with reg shoepeg. I attribute the action on the dodger due to the new formula (for me) as i just read about it. "Heavier line and 2.5 X the length of the dodger. I was using a 6" long dodger. I have yet to try a longer dodger.

At LP, I never once got a hit on the hoochies and it was all on wedding ring setup's. I caught a couple fish on N/C @ Anderson but noticed I was avg bigger fish on N/C at LP over the corn.

I will try the sand idea for testing my Leaded depth. I'm not sure why I thought 36lb line would weigh more. doh? so If I'm understanding that right, the 36 lb is just line strength and all the cores are the same...? The line I bought was 70% off at Joe's when they were selling out, so it was very inexpensive.

I won't give up on the ol Down/Rigger.. now, if nothing else, i'm going back to see if I can snag one on the downrigger... I love to fish and I enjoy learning from you guys.. thanks again.... if you see a guy with a 17.5 basstracker trolling over sand, i'm just ck'g the depth

 

[redmanjr1]

I have never used a jet diver or any other type of diver. Could it be that the diver itself is imparting some kind of action to the slingblade, maybe adding vibration? How far is you blade set back from the diver? To my feeble mind if the only thing different is the diver, then the diver must be the difference?

There is a 6 - 7 foot leader from the diver to the sling blade. I think that you may be right, there could be some action imparted on the rig from the diver but it didn’t look like there was a lot when I watched it go down. Of coarse it probably doesn’t take much. I also think that the diver may be acting as an attractant. It is highly reflective. Between those two items that is probably the difference.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[kodiak1]

The pound test is determined by the exterior dacron sheathing, not the lead interior. Many brands use the same diameter lead, but some do use a larger lead core. Mike

 

[Rafting4fun]

Core

Thanks Mike.. I need to tear into my tackle a bit more and measure/weigh the core to see if they are the same. Then I suppose there is an argument for which line will sink lower...IE: does the lower lb test sink quicker because the diameter is smaller hence less resistance or would the 36lb because of the diameter actually raise because of the line diameter. I hope to find the answer soon... I will post my progress/answer should I find detailed info....J

 

[SuperD]

When you slide the sheathing back it is very easy to see the change in lead core diameter. I always preferred 18 lbs over 12 lbs because it was easier to get my mono up inside the sheathing for my splice knot.

 

[Rafting4fun]

Old D/R

I'm using my very old manual D/R "Canon". I hear good things about the electrics but have never had the opportunity to use one. I have to admit that it gets a little old towards the 3hr if the action has been good. I only have a single battery and wondered if a single bat would handle all the up and down action of an elec.. and then of course there have to be several brands?.. I will ck the threads as this has most likely been asked/answered many times.

 

[Rafting4fun]

More on leaded

This applies to Cortland line.
Cortland uses two sizes of lead insert, one size for their 14# test, and a larger diameter for 18# -- 60#. This means that except for 14#, the weight of the lead remains the same for all line strengths.

What does all this mean to you, the leadcore line angler? You should select the minimum strength line you feel comfortable with (generally 18# -- 36#), and it won't have any impact on maximum depth. Keep in mind that stronger line, besides being more expensive, is thicker. Thicker line uses up reel capacity, thus limiting the total amount of the line you can spool. You need at least 100 yards of leadcore, 30 to 40 feet of leader and 50 or more yards of backing.

http://ludingtonsalmonfishing.com/fishingtips/leadcore.html

 

[kodiak1]

I have another option for you, if you get tired of cranking the ball up and down. Shasta Tackle has devised what they call a Shuttle Hawk. It is a flat piece of plastic that attaches very simply to the cable. It has a release attached to it, but you can swap it out for your favorite type. You attach your line, and drop it into the water. The angle will take it down to the ball. When your line is released, a weight on the Shuttle Hawk will alter the angle, and up it comes. You never have to crank the ball up. It does get quite good reviews. I am thinking about buying one for kokanee fishing at least. They are relatively expensive. The only criticisms I have read is that it drops somewhat slower than if you are dropping the ball, and the little piece of plastic that snaps it onto the cable eventually wears out, and they recommend you eventually put a small piece of duct tape over the slot. Just google Shasta Tackle and Shutttle Hawk, and you should see the reviews and pictures. Hey, lots cheaper than electrics, and far less to go wrong!! Mike