Slowing down

[Scrminbanshee]

So a little background first. I have a 16ft lund fury with a 25hp etec on it. I cant get it to troll slow enough.The slowest i can get to go is about 1.5 to 1.7 on a calm lake. I would really like to be able to have contro l all the way down to .5 on up. I have tried one drift sock out the back but controlling it is useless. I have a bow mounted trolling motor that i use but in wind it becomes hard to control. I also dont like that i cant go for multiple days on a single charge with the trolling motor. I am currently looking at 3 options unless someone has some other idea. one of the three options is two drift socks one on either side off mid ship cleats. I was wondering how does this effect the handling of the boat? Next idea is to put a trolling plate on the motor. Do you guys think this will slow it down enough? Will have controll issues like i do when pulling the drift sock. The last idea is to buy a kicker. I am not to fond of this idea as i am on a budget but if there is no other way then looks like i better start saving. I also wonder how i put this on the back of my boat as there isnt allot of space back there. Anyways heres a pic of the boat for reference.

 

[SuperD]

Taking everything you said into consideration, I'd suggest the trolling plate. They are adjustable as well as providing an option for you to not even deploy it when the conditions dictate. I do think that your desire to have control from .5 mph up presents very limited conditions (lake like glass). There is no system that will give you good control at .5 mph if there is fair breeze blowing. Once the wind kicks up, that 1.5 - 1.7 will be minimum to steer.

 

[mrmike]

One avenue is to see if you can change the pitch on your prop it cheeper to buy a different prop than a kicker I don't know if that the answer but it maybe AMPRO 503-655=9013 THEY CAN ANSWER your question phone call won't hurt

 

[Bduck]

I agree with a troll plate since you have listed options. Also I would check to see if a TrollMaster Pro series electronic throttle control would work on your size motor to work in conjunction with a troll plate. Your trolling speed will be down next to shutting the engine off. This will help tweak your rpms up at a more desireable speed which it virtually hard to do by hand with a tiller handle or up front manual throttle control. I have just the Pro and its been doing its job for about 6yrs now. I like the newer features on the ones today but since mines not broke I'm not going to fix it.

http://www.boatownersworld.com/panther/trollmaster_by_panther.htm

 

[SuperD]

I've been the prop route and going from steep to almost flat pitch only resulted in a couple tenths change in bottom end speed. Converserly, there is no top end left in the prop. Another less popular but old school solution was back trolling. If you ever see someone trolling with the boat in reverse, this is what they are doing. Old timers used to use the brake of the transom to slow the boat down.

 

[Scrminbanshee]

Taking everything you said into consideration, I'd suggest the trolling plate. They are adjustable as well as providing an option for you to not even deploy it when the conditions dictate. I do think that your desire to have control from .5 mph up presents very limited conditions (lake like glass). There is no system that will give you good control at .5 mph if there is fair breeze blowing. Once the wind kicks up, that 1.5 - 1.7 will be minimum to steer.

I will agree that trolling around .5 would be hard. But there are some mornings when everything aligns that it is possible and while it would be used seldom. i would like to keep my options opens. even if it is once in a blue moon.

One avenue is to see if you can change the pitch on your prop it cheeper to buy a different prop than a kicker I don't know if that the answer but it maybe AMPRO 503-655=9013 THEY CAN ANSWER your question phone call won't hurt

I am on my second prop. don't want to have to tell that story. Anyways its a stock pitch if i mess with the pitch will i loose any speed on the top end and the ability to plane off. I like how she runs now. I am able to put myself my wife, dog and sister in law in the boat with a cooler and fishing gear and still do about 22mph which with that little 25 I'm quite happy with. The fact that when its just me and the dog with gear i can still do almost 26. Im pretty happy especially when i fill up maybe once a week and i fish a couple times a week in the summer.

I agree with a troll plate since you have listed options. Also I would check to see if a TrollMaster Pro series electronic throttle control would work on your size motor to work in conjunction with a troll plate. Your trolling speed will be down next to shutting the engine off. This will help tweak your rpms up at a more desireable speed which it virtually hard to do by hand with a tiller handle or up front manual throttle control. I have just the Pro and its been doing its job for about 6yrs now. I like the newer features on the ones today but since mines not broke I'm not going to fix it.

http://www.boatownersworld.com/panther/trollmaster_by_panther.htm

This troll master control looks to be similar to a feature on the motor already; where i can control the idle plus or minus 50 rpms till the engine dies or am moving along pretty quick.

When it come to the trolling plates do you loose any ability to control the boat when trolling? That was the main problem with the drift sock. I also have a fin on the motor to help her plane the boat and such these trolling plates act like a fin also right? Does it affect the speed because it creates more drag? I know my little motor can get me going pretty good but it does work (kinda hard) to get her up and running like mentioned above (i mean come on it is a 16ft boat with a 25). Anybody have a particular model of trolling plate that they recommend? Is the manual better because it locks down and therefore has to slow down the boat whereas the automatic plate may not come down as far or could cause more resistance therefore making my motor work harder and loose some of it performance?
Thanks a bunch for all the quick replies.

 

[Scrminbanshee]

I've been the prop route and going from steep to almost flat pitch only resulted in a couple tenths change in bottom end speed. Converserly, there is no top end left in the prop. Another less popular but old school solution was back trolling. If you ever see someone trolling with the boat in reverse, this is what they are doing. Old timers used to use the brake of the transom to slow the boat down.

Thanks, thats what i was worried about when changing the pitch of the prop.

 

[dragonfly]

Of your 3 ideas the separate trolling motor is the safest and a more dependable way to go especialy if you want to go super slow, but need one with a low gear ratio that is why the yamaha 8 and 9.9 ara so popular but it is the more expensive way to go I ran a trolling plate long ago and they do work but on mine you had to remember to lift the plate or it shears the pin when you throttle up and you had to carry spare pins, the new ones may not need them you would have to check that out. your drift sock should work how big is it I had a 16' smokercraft with a 25 hp merc and used the bigest fishermans marine had and it worked I zip tied the small end down untill it slowed the boat to the speed I needed but it wasn't consistant when the current changes plus you have to watch your lines, and when you are landing your fish. the trolling motor is limited to your batt. life you could carry more batts and stay at a full hook up campsite and charge the dead batts. while you used the other ones but you say its hard to control have you tried it off the transom ? just some ideas dfly

 

[jekern1015]

I would go with a small outboard as a trolling moter. I have a 16' tracker with a 40hp merc. and I use a 9.9 merc to troll with. I can not troll under 1.5 on a glass lake. Colman, nissan and mercury all have moters down in the 2.5-4hp range, those might get you down that slow. I use a 45lb thrust electric off the front of my boat when I need to go slower, I also use it to steer the boat in rough conditions at slower speeds.

 

[lowe1648mt]

Old argument. I use 2- 6 volt deep cycle extra heavy duty interstate batteries. If you wire them in series, you get 12 volts and way more amp hours than with 2- 12volt deep cycles wired in parallel. My bow mount trolling motor pushes my 16 foot flat bottom from .2 mph to 3.0 mph. At 1.2 mph on relatively calm water it will work for 4 or 5 days. As my main motor only charges at 6 amps, it's of little help in keeping the batteries up. However the main motor will troll down to about 1.0 mph w/ down riggers down.(2) It's a 9.9 Merc. if I need to go slower, I leave the elec. trolling motor down for drag.

 

[Scrminbanshee]

Of your 3 ideas the separate trolling motor is the safest and a more dependable way to go especialy if you want to go super slow, but need one with a low gear ratio that is why the yamaha 8 and 9.9 ara so popular but it is the more expensive way to go I ran a trolling plate long ago and they do work but on mine you had to remember to lift the plate or it shears the pin when you throttle up and you had to carry spare pins, the new ones may not need them you would have to check that out. your drift sock should work how big is it I had a 16' smokercraft with a 25 hp merc and used the bigest fishermans marine had and it worked I zip tied the small end down untill it slowed the boat to the speed I needed but it wasn't consistant when the current changes plus you have to watch your lines, and when you are landing your fish. the trolling motor is limited to your batt. life you could carry more batts and stay at a full hook up campsite and charge the dead batts. while you used the other ones but you say its hard to control have you tried it off the transom ? just some ideas dfly

I have put it directly off the stern. The problem is when i go to turn it impossible to have very much control over the boat.

I would go with a small outboard as a trolling moter. I have a 16' tracker with a 40hp merc. and I use a 9.9 merc to troll with. I can not troll under 1.5 on a glass lake. Colman, nissan and mercury all have moters down in the 2.5-4hp range, those might get you down that slow. I use a 45lb thrust electric off the front of my boat when I need to go slower, I also use it to steer the boat in rough conditions at slower speeds.

The trolling motor on the bow isn't a bad way to go its the way i have been using it to troll but there are two problems. one, maybe its just me but when the wind kicks up its hard to control. two, the batteries die after a day of use. I actually really like to use my trolling motor because it is quite and smoke free.Maybe if i got one of the autopilots for it then it would help me control it when in the wind. The new autopilots with gps built in seem like they could be pretty handy for just this application.

a kicker can't be too expensive right? and isn't a new prop almost as expensive?

A new prop is about 100 bucks just bought one this summer. A kicker is anywhere from 300 bucks up to a couple grand for a new one.

Do the trolling plates cause the same steering problems as the drift sock out back? Or can you still control the boat just fine on both a calm lake and a windy one? When it comes to a kicker how would a guy mount that out back so that it doesn't drag around all day in the water causing all that drag? My lund has low gunnels. Also I think something in the realm of a 4-6hp would be the right size but which one has the lowest gear ratio. I do think it would be cool to have a matching set of evinrudes on there.

I guess when it comes down to it i just don't want to buy socks to only realize it didn't work that great so then i buy the trolling plate only to be let down again. So i finally buy a kicker and have spent an extra 500 bucks on all this other crap that really didn't work out like wanted. I am all for saving a buck but sometimes it costs me more. Thanks everybody for all the input.

 

[dragonfly]

just remember on a kicker nornally any thing under 8 hp is a single cyl and they are noisier, vibrate a lot exspecially on light aluminum boats but they do tend to be lighter so there is a trade off. dfly

 

[kelson]

Have you tried deploying the drift sock off the bow so that it is under the center of your boat? It should give you a bit more control. K

 

[Scrminbanshee]

Have you tried deploying the drift sock off the bow so that it is under the center of your boat? It should give you a bit more control. K

I have not, but i have read that you can run two smalls one off each side of the boat from mid-ship. This may be a decent setup just to have. I have read that it is supposed to help stabilize your boat in heavy wind. Anybody have much experience with this type of set up?

 

[Scrminbanshee]

Well i went down to cabelas and i think i found something to try. A trolling plate! well let me explain, I went into the bargain cave and they had a hydro troll trolling plate. It is also a hydro foil. Now here is the best part its normally 109 bucks, in the cave it was 53.99, and then it rang up and 35.99 and i got 20% off! So i figured if it doesnt work im not out all that much. i just hope it works with the holes in cavitation plate for my current hydro foil. Anybody ever tried one before.

 

[Tater Salad]

Sounds like you got a smokin deal at Cabela's. You will most likely be happy with the trolling plate. Even if your previously drilled holes in the cavitation plate don't line up, redrill and put it on. We all hate to drill holes in our cavitation plates, but the reality is they don't interfere with performance at all. If later you remove the trolling plate and have holes in the cavitation plate exposed, you can fill them with a bolt, or weld them up.

The way you were using the drift sock makes it almost impossible to turn. I used a drift sock a few years back. It worked well the way I had it set up, but still had some drawbacks.
When you connect the drift sock to the transom with a fixed length of rope, either at one side of the transom, or to both sides of the transom. (Like a yoke) The drift sock resists any turn the boat makes.
If you want to turn to port, and the drift sock is connected by rope to the starboard transom, the sock tries to straighten the boat. I had the sock connected by a yoke, to the port and starboard sides. I thought this was going to work, but found that upon turning the inboard side rope would be slack, and the outboard side rope would be taught. So the drift sock would try to straighten the boat either direction I turned.
I solved that issue by attaching the drift sock to the rope with a pulley. This allowed the drift sock to roll along the yoke, and always pulled evenly on both sides, even while turning. This worked great. I had great boat control, and good control of speed.
My drift sock was heavy, so when I would stop trolling to fight a fish, it would sink, and be hanging straight down below the transom. When I would put it back in gear, it would deploy behind the boat, and not get in the motor.
The problem with this set up should be rather obvious, as the sock and the yoke are hanging under the boat, when you are fighting a fish. That being said, I never had a fish get into the sock. I would hate to loose that "big fish" though.

I have used two small socks hung off of amidships cleats. I still use them on my 16' CDory with a 50 etec.
I have a 5 horse kicker, but still find that I get better boat control with the small socks even while trolling on the kicker. It helps with throttle control, as I don't have a TrollMaster on this kicker motor, yet. (I have a TrollMaster on my kicker on my big boat, and love it)
The small socks I have are really small, big end is maybe a 10" diameter? If I were looking for socks again, I would get a little bigger. The socks hung off of the side don't interfere with fighting a fish, as they are on short ropes, maybe 3'. The end of the socks are just forward of the transom when deployed.

As far as an electric trolling goes, the bow mount is the way to go.
It is much easier for a motor to "pull" your boat straight, than it is to "push" your boat straight.
However, it is easier for you to control the motor by hand, on the transom, than by foot peddle, on the bow.
The best solution for the electric is the Auto Pilot, bow mount. It will fight the wind for you, and maintain your heading. It is so nice to troll along with the electric, compared to the gas motor.
How often are you away from an electrical outlet for multiple days? If not often, than you should probably stay with one battery. Is weight and space and issue for you in the bow of the boat? If not, than put two batteries in the bow. The "best" two battery set up is the two 6 volt batteries. You would have to look at cost, charging systems, and weight. It may be prohibitive when you look at all of those factors. You could have a two battery system now by just adding another 12 volt battery, and some wiring.

Look at your boat as a system. If it were me I would not go in just one direction. I would have the trolling plate on the main motor, 2 small socks that I could deploy amidships, and the bow mount trolling motor. For the bow mount motor I would upgrade to multiple batteries, and auto pilot as finances allowed.
Most of my trolling would be done on the bow mount motor. When wind or other issues made the bow mount harder to control, I would troll off of the main motor, with plate down and/or socks deployed.
A lot of trollers with auto pilots are now powering their boats with their kicker at idle and their auto pilot motor taking care of steering, direction. In your situation this would probably only work when you wanted to troll a little faster.

Good luck, and feel free to ask if any of this long winded reply doesn't make sense.

 

[lowe1648mt]

Tater Salad,
Thanks for agreeing with me on the " 2-6 volt batts". I have suggested this a couple of times but have essentially been told that I didn't know what I was talking about.

 

[Tater Salad]

Tater Salad,
Thanks for agreeing with me on the " 2-6 volt batts". I have suggested this a couple of times but have essentially been told that I didn't know what I was talking about.

Lowe you are right on with the 6 volt batts. In this application they may be too large, heavy, though. But whenever you can afford / fit them in, they outperform 12 volt batt's.

 

[lowe1648mt]

Scrminbanshee,

I take it that your boat is a tiller steer. How much room do you have in your bow storage? When you fish are you by your self or do you have company?
The reason I ask is to find out how your boat sits in the water. Is it bow up or level? My 16 ft flat bottom used to set bow up with 2 people in the boat.
When I changed from 2 deep cycle 12 volt batteries in the transom area to 2-6 volt deep cycle batteries, I moved the 6 volts forward of the forward bench seat.
This put the boat on an even keel when sitting still. It also used less fuel when using the gas motor. It was also faster. This is because of less drag. You will use less electricity with your electric for the same reason. If you have the room fwd for 2-6 volts, you might give it a thought. I use those same 2-6 volt to start my main motor. Should work for your 25 hp. Plus the 25 will charge your batts. Or you could leave the 12 volt in the rear and add a batter combiner or an isolator.
Another option is to put in a battery switch so you can start on the starting battery and switch over to charge your trolling batteries.
Lots of possibilities. Sorry for the long post.
P.S. If your bow is in the water, it will steer better.

 

[MackPrince]

Well i went down to cabelas and i think i found something to try. A trolling plate! well let me explain, I went into the bargain cave and they had a hydro troll trolling plate. It is also a hydro foil. Now here is the best part its normally 109 bucks, in the cave it was 53.99, and then it rang up and 35.99 and i got 20% off! So i figured if it doesnt work im not out all that much. i just hope it works with the holes in cavitation plate for my current hydro foil. Anybody ever tried one before.

I have used one for years. More often than not it is in a partial block vs. full lock position. It all depends on the water conditions and time of year if I need it for kokes or not. For macks it was a must have.