Federal fishery strategy
- Thread starter dubob
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Since this is a fisheries issue, I'm letting this thread stand until somebody convinces me through his actions otherwise.
It is certainly a tough issue we face. Fish management hasn't been the best and over fishing is real. How we protect our rights and protect our resources at the same time is definitely a challenge.
It is certainly a tough issue we face. Fish management hasn't been the best and over fishing is real. How we protect our rights and protect our resources at the same time is definitely a challenge.
DLM
Oregon Forum MODERATOR
My first thought was an often use quote of Will Rogers that said no man is safe as long as the legislature is in session, at least I think it was Will Rogers.
But the fact is this decision will be made by appointed bureaucrats, not people we elected, and public input into this discussion is now been cutoff.
It is unfortunate that a few have the power to regulate millions without any oversight of their actions. The only resort is for congress to make laws changing any regulation that these types of bodies make. That does not happen very frequently.
But the fact is this decision will be made by appointed bureaucrats, not people we elected, and public input into this discussion is now been cutoff.
It is unfortunate that a few have the power to regulate millions without any oversight of their actions. The only resort is for congress to make laws changing any regulation that these types of bodies make. That does not happen very frequently.
gonefishing
Well-known member
Whats next????
I hope people in this Country wake up and figure out that we have a very dictatorial federal government gaining more and more power.
The authority of Presidential executive orders needs to be greatly restricted. It is out of control.
When the power is taken away from our legislative branch of our governemnt through executive orders, we loose our voice in government.
These types of actions are also destroying what is left of our states rights.
We are loosing more than the right to fish. (FREEDOM)
Thank you for the Link to this article. Everyone, write your congressional advocates.
I hope people in this Country wake up and figure out that we have a very dictatorial federal government gaining more and more power.
The authority of Presidential executive orders needs to be greatly restricted. It is out of control.
When the power is taken away from our legislative branch of our governemnt through executive orders, we loose our voice in government.
These types of actions are also destroying what is left of our states rights.
We are loosing more than the right to fish. (FREEDOM)
Thank you for the Link to this article. Everyone, write your congressional advocates.
trollmonkey
Well-known member
Everyday we are watching our freedom being assaulted so it looks like we are in the crosshairs. These greenies may just want to protect/preserve the resource ,but I think they just want to shut us out.Making the outdoors a museum that we can "appreciate" but not touch would be the saddest thing I could imagine.For most of us fishing and hunting are a birthright passed down though our families and we intend to keep the tradition going,woe be to anyone breaking this chain.We as voters have got to send this group a message.
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skookum9
Well-known member
What can I say except that we are in real trouble. The sensible majority has allowed the insane minority to take over all legal actions in this country. If they were really sincere about intelligent managing of fish numbers then they would consider also controlling fish predators. You won't hear these greenies talk about that for even one second. If sanity doesn't return to the rule of the land, we here in this country are destined for the presence of torches and pitchforks on the courthouses and capitals across the country. I love my country but there is a cancer here that we have allowed to destroy us. It may already be too late to cut it out but if it's not it will be soon. Our only hope is to stand firm against these fools. And to stand united. These are the people who say that they are open minded and tolerant. They are the most close minded and intolerant people in the world. They say that might doesn't make right and then they turn around and attempt to divide and conquer us and win their case by shouting us down. As a Christian, I believe it is a sign of the times, but I'm not willing to let it happen without casting my vote against it. If any of you can come up with some good ideas on how to defeat this, and other assults as well, let us know here. You can count me in, for whatever that is worth.
Fallriverguy
Well-known member
Here is a counter point on the article.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2775574/espn_claims_obama_is_about_to_ban_fishing.html?cat=9
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2775574/espn_claims_obama_is_about_to_ban_fishing.html?cat=9
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dubob
Well-known member
The other side of the story
FRG,
Thank you very much for that counterpoint link. It does indeed make a valid counterpoint to the ESPN article. I hope everybody will take the opportunity to read it. There are almost always two sides to every discussion. This particular issue bears watching.
FRG,
Thank you very much for that counterpoint link. It does indeed make a valid counterpoint to the ESPN article. I hope everybody will take the opportunity to read it. There are almost always two sides to every discussion. This particular issue bears watching.
dubob
Well-known member
ESPN said Oops.
Check out the link below to an ESPN Executive Editor comment about the Montgomery article. You will notice he didn't bother to provide contrary points of view. He just says it should have been presented with the original article. To me, that’s a pretty lame apology.
ESPN Follow-up
Check out the link below to an ESPN Executive Editor comment about the Montgomery article. You will notice he didn't bother to provide contrary points of view. He just says it should have been presented with the original article. To me, that’s a pretty lame apology.
ESPN Follow-up
jzell
Well-known member
Good find there Brian.
jz
jz
skookum9
Well-known member
Thanks Brian, if that were all that I had heard today I might be comforted a little bit but I heard a radio interview today that did nothing to help this issue. I was listening to a local radio program in which the host had a guest on the air who claimed to be involved in the initial process of this executive order that is supposedly about to be signed. According to what this guy said, this order is less than clear about the difference between sport and commercial fishing and did in fact mention that recreational use on waters will be affected. He also said that there were multiple versions of this order and he did not know which one the president was going to sign, but he seemed pretty sure that one of them would be signed. I hope it's all a little blown out of proportion but I don't think it's something we can afford to risk that gamble on. For anyone who knows me, there is no doubt that I do not like or trust this illegal president, and I definately do not like his hidden agenda's and use of executive order to get his way on anything he wants. I hope it is just my distrust of this person that has me on pins and needles but I think there is still great concern out there. But then again, I also have to part company with Mr. Jeffrey Weeks in his support of some of the environmental conservation organizations. I've yet to see one of these outfits that I could agree did more good than harm. The one thing that I have heard in the positive about all of this is that the B.O. in the white house may be having second thoughts about this since it has drawn such a reaction from the public. When it comes to something like this, I'd much rather see an over-reaction that not enough of one.
smokin' Kokes
Well-known member
what's the real shame and scam in this article is that it is NOT news facts but just some writer's distorted opinion and deliberate distortion of facts to serve his own political opinions.
history does repeat itself allowing fools to appear as experts and reporters of true facts. Joseph Goebbels used the same tactics to bend weak minds.
history does repeat itself allowing fools to appear as experts and reporters of true facts. Joseph Goebbels used the same tactics to bend weak minds.
fishslayer13
Well-known member
Skookum I like you have an extreme distrust for government. Over regulation of something like fishing can put an end to it just as easy as them passing a law that you cant even fish.
I guess we will see what happens and then let the games begin. fencing
Edited personal political views.
I guess we will see what happens and then let the games begin. fencing
Edited personal political views.
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DLM
Oregon Forum MODERATOR
While the original article may be one side and biased we should not be so quick to say that these types of rights cannot be taken away from us, that what was reported would never happen.
Our fishing and hunting rights have been under attack for years, and will continue to be the targets of the more radical environmental groups. If the people making the decisions in the government have a sympathetic ear for the groups, as they do now, ANYTHING could happen.
There is now active legislation in New York to ban restraunts from using any salt in the preparation of food!
Yesterday in Texas there were meetings about the history books used in schools. There are "progressive" groups that want to limit them from 1877 forward, include nothing in the books about the countrys history prior to 1877. Nothing about how and why this country was formed, nothing about the founding fathers, nothing about the Declaration of Independance, Constitution, Bill of Rights. It looks like this proposal may go down in flames, but only because parents and citizens "revolted" and let their opinions be known.
Thirty years ago would you have dreamed of condom machines in middle and high schools, and teenage girls able to get abortions without their parents knowledge. We, me included, would have laughed and said anyone saying such a thing would happen was just an alarmist trying to scare people into their beliefs.
If this article, opinion or not, got us to be more aware and vigilant about what is going on in Washington then maybe it served a good purpose.
Our fishing and hunting rights have been under attack for years, and will continue to be the targets of the more radical environmental groups. If the people making the decisions in the government have a sympathetic ear for the groups, as they do now, ANYTHING could happen.
There is now active legislation in New York to ban restraunts from using any salt in the preparation of food!
Yesterday in Texas there were meetings about the history books used in schools. There are "progressive" groups that want to limit them from 1877 forward, include nothing in the books about the countrys history prior to 1877. Nothing about how and why this country was formed, nothing about the founding fathers, nothing about the Declaration of Independance, Constitution, Bill of Rights. It looks like this proposal may go down in flames, but only because parents and citizens "revolted" and let their opinions be known.
Thirty years ago would you have dreamed of condom machines in middle and high schools, and teenage girls able to get abortions without their parents knowledge. We, me included, would have laughed and said anyone saying such a thing would happen was just an alarmist trying to scare people into their beliefs.
If this article, opinion or not, got us to be more aware and vigilant about what is going on in Washington then maybe it served a good purpose.
skookum9
Well-known member
I don't think I could agree with you on this one, smokin', I just don't see anyone's distortion of facts at all. Because of your statement, I took the time to go back and re-read the original article and I found zero false statements in it. The only opinions that I found in the article were assesments made by a Mr. Phil Morlock of Shimano. Also, from the information I heard from the interview yesterday, I did not find Mr. Morlocks assesments to be without reasonable understanding. The facts of the article are still the facts. The fact is that there is an executive order coming, supposedly, that will indeed affect fishing. The fact is that several environmental groups out there oppose both hunting and fishing. The fact is that B.O. did indeed close off all input from the public in this decision and is going to do whatever he wants. These were the facts of the article and THIS is what should scare the living daylights out of all of us.
In re-reading the article, I have more problem with Week's piece than I do with Montgomery's. And I also found no problem with the apology piece that is accused of being "lame", other than the fact that I do not see the original article as an opinion piece in any way, shape or form. This article seemed to me exactly what it should have been, a wake up call to fishermen to show our government that we care. Do not think for one second that they will not divide and conquer us just as they have in many other aspects in our lives. First they will divide the commercial fishermen from the recreational angler. Next will come the separation of the bait fishermen. After that, who know's, maybe boats with gas motor's, first 2-stroke and then 4-stroke. If we do not listen when we are told we are being attacked, we will indeed be attacked. I think what frightens me the most is how much more accepting many of us are once we read one article that attempts to discredit another. Both authors are writing about something they are concerned about and both are giving arguments for their belief's.
Please don't be fooled into beliving there is no threat here. I hope and pray that this threat doesn't come about, but the threat is still there and calming down about it is not what we should be doing. Yes, it is my opinion that the man who is called president is trying to destroy our country, it is also my opinion that this is not his country. But do not think I'm an extremist, I am looking at the facts and they scare the living daylights out of me. If we do not stand together when news like this comes up, even if it were incorrect, we will eventually find ourselves divided and conquered and without the things we love in life. The most I see the original article being off is its concerns over the recreational fishing, but we still need commercial fishing as well. I don't know the number's, I don't know what is being over-fished commercially, but I do know to be concerned about the information provided by consevation groups just as much as I am about information provided by the commercial fishing industries.
From what I see, what is being called upon us to do is to stand at attention and keep a watchful eye out for "monkey-business". There is no call for any other action than this at this time. I do not think the writer was out of line for giving out the information that he gave, I appreciate the fact that he made us aware of a "potential" threat, even if it turns out to be much less than we fear. Do not be offended by someone who say's "look out!", or you may find that they will someday not tell you when you really wish they had.
In re-reading the article, I have more problem with Week's piece than I do with Montgomery's. And I also found no problem with the apology piece that is accused of being "lame", other than the fact that I do not see the original article as an opinion piece in any way, shape or form. This article seemed to me exactly what it should have been, a wake up call to fishermen to show our government that we care. Do not think for one second that they will not divide and conquer us just as they have in many other aspects in our lives. First they will divide the commercial fishermen from the recreational angler. Next will come the separation of the bait fishermen. After that, who know's, maybe boats with gas motor's, first 2-stroke and then 4-stroke. If we do not listen when we are told we are being attacked, we will indeed be attacked. I think what frightens me the most is how much more accepting many of us are once we read one article that attempts to discredit another. Both authors are writing about something they are concerned about and both are giving arguments for their belief's.
Please don't be fooled into beliving there is no threat here. I hope and pray that this threat doesn't come about, but the threat is still there and calming down about it is not what we should be doing. Yes, it is my opinion that the man who is called president is trying to destroy our country, it is also my opinion that this is not his country. But do not think I'm an extremist, I am looking at the facts and they scare the living daylights out of me. If we do not stand together when news like this comes up, even if it were incorrect, we will eventually find ourselves divided and conquered and without the things we love in life. The most I see the original article being off is its concerns over the recreational fishing, but we still need commercial fishing as well. I don't know the number's, I don't know what is being over-fished commercially, but I do know to be concerned about the information provided by consevation groups just as much as I am about information provided by the commercial fishing industries.
From what I see, what is being called upon us to do is to stand at attention and keep a watchful eye out for "monkey-business". There is no call for any other action than this at this time. I do not think the writer was out of line for giving out the information that he gave, I appreciate the fact that he made us aware of a "potential" threat, even if it turns out to be much less than we fear. Do not be offended by someone who say's "look out!", or you may find that they will someday not tell you when you really wish they had.
skookum9
Well-known member
Fishslayer, please don't misunderstand my distrust of government. I believe that our ancestors had more wisdom than we, as a whole, exhibit today, and I try to subscribe to their way of thinking. Part of how I do this is to study history. One U.S. history lesson I recall well is that government is inherently evil, this was spoken by our founding fathers when they were designing our government to not be stronger than its people. This included that the people should be as well or better armed than the military. And no, I'm not really all that comfortable with the idea of my neighbor owning nuclear cruise missles. But the idea that governments will corrupt themselves is very true, it was then and it still is now. It was once said that, "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." This also is true, and when you combine the two you begin to see some of why I am a skeptic. But this skepticism does not make me loathe our government.
I love our country, and I am thankful to all of those who serve and protect her. Be they Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, Coast Guard, National Guard or Reseves. Also, I feel the same way about police, firefighters and emergency medical personnel, FBI and CIA. I do not think that our government is always so corrupt in every corner. But I do think there are a lot of corners in which corruption does hide. And it is my skepticism that makes me keep a close watch over what I see happening and causes me to be wary of this corruption. What causes me to loathe this administration is simply their own words and actions under my skeptical watch.
Add to this mix my distrust of our media today. They have an agenda and I believe their agenda has been made clear. They have far too much power to control the minds of the American people and this power is a real danger. Now when you have a powerful media with tremendous influence in how people think, doting over their political picks, this puts me on full alert. It's not that they will always choose wrong, although they almost always do, it's the fact that they paint a picture of what they want us to see. George Bush was not as bad as they claimed him to be, in fact, I think he was pretty darn good, and B.O. is no nearly as good as they claim him to be, I believe he is the worst leader our country has ever had. I am just a skeptic and like to observe what these people are really doing and not just what the media is telling us about them. The media turned a majority of our country against George Bush, and has turned B.O. into some sort of a celebrity.
Please understand that I do not hate our government. I simply hate when our government gets too strong and has too much power. Balance is key and there is no longer a balance in our government. The Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of our government are all under contol of the same powers and like-mindedness. Bureaucracy and environmentalism are run amok and are utterly destroying us. I certainly am not in favor of anarchy in any way, shape or form. I love our country, and I love our government, I just have no love for the powers that we have entrusted to be in charge of our government or the mentallity that seems to run rampant in it.
I love our country, and I am thankful to all of those who serve and protect her. Be they Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, Coast Guard, National Guard or Reseves. Also, I feel the same way about police, firefighters and emergency medical personnel, FBI and CIA. I do not think that our government is always so corrupt in every corner. But I do think there are a lot of corners in which corruption does hide. And it is my skepticism that makes me keep a close watch over what I see happening and causes me to be wary of this corruption. What causes me to loathe this administration is simply their own words and actions under my skeptical watch.
Add to this mix my distrust of our media today. They have an agenda and I believe their agenda has been made clear. They have far too much power to control the minds of the American people and this power is a real danger. Now when you have a powerful media with tremendous influence in how people think, doting over their political picks, this puts me on full alert. It's not that they will always choose wrong, although they almost always do, it's the fact that they paint a picture of what they want us to see. George Bush was not as bad as they claimed him to be, in fact, I think he was pretty darn good, and B.O. is no nearly as good as they claim him to be, I believe he is the worst leader our country has ever had. I am just a skeptic and like to observe what these people are really doing and not just what the media is telling us about them. The media turned a majority of our country against George Bush, and has turned B.O. into some sort of a celebrity.
Please understand that I do not hate our government. I simply hate when our government gets too strong and has too much power. Balance is key and there is no longer a balance in our government. The Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of our government are all under contol of the same powers and like-mindedness. Bureaucracy and environmentalism are run amok and are utterly destroying us. I certainly am not in favor of anarchy in any way, shape or form. I love our country, and I love our government, I just have no love for the powers that we have entrusted to be in charge of our government or the mentallity that seems to run rampant in it.
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smokin' Kokes
Well-known member
pure opinion written to drive the masses into panic
there are no facts in this snip from Robert Montgomery's article
""""""""""
"Now we see NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) and the administration planning the future of recreational fishing access in America based on a similar agenda of these same groups and other Big Green anti-use organizations, through an Executive Order by the President. The current U.S. direction with fishing is a direct parallel to what happened in Canada with hunting: The negative economic impacts on hard-working American families and small businesses are being ignored.
"In spite of what we hear daily in the press about the President's concern for jobs and the economy and contrary to what he stated in the June order creating this process, we have seen no evidence from NOAA or the task force that recreational fishing and related jobs are receiving any priority."
""""""""""""
NOAA and marine biologists world wide have documented the drastic decrease in marine fish stocks. Every sane government backed by it's citizens support and enact regulations to support and protect fisheries.
The giant bluefin tuna is a case in point. Stock decimation has driven the species to the brink of extinction. Now, the only action that will save the blue marlin for future generations to eat is total ban and shutdown of worldwide fisheries.
Utah could very well loose the economic base of out of state kokanee fisheries at Flaming Gorge due to the drastic kokanee decline. Will Utah and it's citizens step up to the plate and protect their investment and business for the long term or let Flaming Gorge and all the associated businesses go down the drain. It will require difficult to accept by fishermen, decisions by the Utah FG.
I've already planned my spring/summer fishing for Colorado and elsewhere.
Edited for antagonistic language.
there are no facts in this snip from Robert Montgomery's article
""""""""""
"Now we see NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) and the administration planning the future of recreational fishing access in America based on a similar agenda of these same groups and other Big Green anti-use organizations, through an Executive Order by the President. The current U.S. direction with fishing is a direct parallel to what happened in Canada with hunting: The negative economic impacts on hard-working American families and small businesses are being ignored.
"In spite of what we hear daily in the press about the President's concern for jobs and the economy and contrary to what he stated in the June order creating this process, we have seen no evidence from NOAA or the task force that recreational fishing and related jobs are receiving any priority."
""""""""""""
NOAA and marine biologists world wide have documented the drastic decrease in marine fish stocks. Every sane government backed by it's citizens support and enact regulations to support and protect fisheries.
The giant bluefin tuna is a case in point. Stock decimation has driven the species to the brink of extinction. Now, the only action that will save the blue marlin for future generations to eat is total ban and shutdown of worldwide fisheries.
Utah could very well loose the economic base of out of state kokanee fisheries at Flaming Gorge due to the drastic kokanee decline. Will Utah and it's citizens step up to the plate and protect their investment and business for the long term or let Flaming Gorge and all the associated businesses go down the drain. It will require difficult to accept by fishermen, decisions by the Utah FG.
I've already planned my spring/summer fishing for Colorado and elsewhere.
Edited for antagonistic language.
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