Strip Mining Fish

[Kokanee-Toni]

based upon those criteria listed by smalma, those of you in the S. Sound area with limited driving distance ranges are restricted to an overloaded kokanee resource, American Lake. Much as many SW Wa. koke fishermen are stuck with the vagaries of Merwin, it's weather and limited stocking program. American Lake is overloaded by koke fishermen not because of excess fish show exposure or too many fisher people, it's overcrowded with a failing koke fishery due to management failure at WDFW and their very poorly managed and funded statewide kokanee program.

Some of us are lucky enough to be able to expand out our koke fishing experience to BC, Ore. and the Rocky Mountain states.

It's a shame that Wa DFW short shrifts state kokanee fishermen. One must ask themselves, are they getting their $27.50 license fee in quality koke fishing experience.

I did not see what you are saying in smalma post.

I would like to know where you get your information about where there are kokanee lakes here? Where do you get your information on management of WDFW? Or how the kokanee program is managed?

Within 30 miles of where I live I have 7 lakes to fish for kokanee besides American. If I want to expand that to 50 there are even more. American is not the only kokanee lake here!
smalma post mentioned deciding what we, as kokanee fishing people, want. I go to American for bigger fish. The lake 15 minutes form my house has an abundance of small kokanee. This year they are even smaller than last year. Just as there are fewer kokanee at American that are bigger. Maybe something from mother nature happened in 2009 or 2010 that affected fish in Pierce county?

 

[Jdlunk]

Curt, thanks again for your informative replies and knowledge. How might we as concerned anglers get involved in this and with the management of Kokanee? Is there a way we can get involved or have a voice or impact?

 

[lowe1648mt]

Kokanee Power of Washington!

 

[kokanee_slayer]

I’ve read the posts and would like to share some insights from 20+ years of experience routinely fishing American Lake and 5 years experience of exclusively fishing for Kokanee on this lake.

1) As Toni mentioned, what we are experiencing is not a result of the fishing pressure THIS season. What’s occurring this year is most likely a result of something which happened in 2009 or 2010. Many of us who routinely fish the lake, anticipated the situation this year due to the lack of 9 and 10 inch fish caught last year. These would have been this year’s fish. Most of Kokanee caught last year were “Cookie Cutter” 13 and 14 inch fish. Apparently, something occurred which impacted the fingerlings stocked in 2009 or 2010.

2) The last two years at American were “Banner” years for Kokanee and not really typical for this lake. What we will end up seeing as the norm, once things stabilize, is something in between what we experienced in 2011 and this year..

3) Although it’s inconvenient at times to fish on a crowded lake, Outdoor Line and/or Northwest Wild Country did not cause or contribute to the lack of fish this year.

4) The Kokanee Forum is a good place to share ideas and techniques. I personally have learned a lot from my friends and other anglers and don’t mind passing info on to others. If you prefer not to share information, then don’t.

5) There are many factors which may have contributed to the situation this year. Agree its incumbent for anglers to be good stewards of our resources and believe most of us do a decent job.

 

[Jdlunk]

I’ve read the posts and would like to share some insights from 20+ years of experience routinely fishing American Lake and 5 years experience of exclusively fishing for Kokanee on this lake.

1) As Toni mentioned, what we are experiencing is not a result of the fishing pressure THIS season. What’s occurring this year is most likely a result of something which happened in 2009 or 2010. Many of us who routinely fish the lake, anticipated the situation this year due to the lack of 9 and 10 inch fish caught last year. These would have been this year’s fish. Most of Kokanee caught last year were “Cookie Cutter” 13 and 14 inch fish. Apparently, something occurred which impacted the fingerlings stocked in 2009 or 2010.

2) The last two years at American were “Banner” years for Kokanee and not really typical for this lake. What we will end up seeing as the norm, once things stabilize, is something in between what we experienced in 2011 and this year..

3) Although it’s inconvenient at times to fish on a crowded lake, Outdoor Line and/or Northwest Wild Country did not cause or contribute to the lack of fish this year.

4) The Kokanee Forum is a good place to share ideas and techniques. I personally have learned a lot from my friends and other anglers and don’t mind passing info on to others. If you prefer not to share information, then don’t.

5) There are many factors which may have contributed to the situation this year. Agree its incumbent for anglers to be good stewards of our resources and believe most of us do a decent job.

You bring up some good points and I agree with you that the added fishing pressure this year is not the cause for the decline this year. I too have fished American for the past 6 years and have been a Kokanee fisherman for almost 30 years. I totally agree that the last two years at American were above average banner years and were not typical.

My main point has been that we have to be wise with what we have. The last two years at American the fishing was very easy, almost anyone could go out and catch Kokes all day long, which lead to a lot of fish being "released of which a lot of these fish died and were wasted! As it has been well documented and stated, the survival rate for Kokanee that are released is very low. My point here is just cause you can catch 40-50 fish a day does not mean it is ethical or even legal in some cases to do so and does not mean you should.

Another point I have been making is that a lot of attention is being drawn to Kokanee fishing and it is gaining in popularity here in Western Washington. I think it is good that it is gaining in interest and that it is being discussed on the radio, internet, and seminars. However I strongly feel that at this current time we do not have the local bodies of water with populations to stand up to the pressure that is being put on our lakes. I am not sure what the exact answer is but I feel strongly that interest and popularity in Kokanee fishing alone is not going to be enough. We have to put equal emphasis on the management of Kokanee and make sure our voices are heard with regards to plants and management of Kokanee.

Inherently there is nothing wrong with sharing information and of course with it will come increased pressure, but again I raise the question do we here in western washington currently have the fish populations to handle the added interest and pressure that is being put on our local lakes? And if not what are we kokanee fishermen going to do about it? How can we get involved and make a difference?

 

[Jdlunk]

jdlunk -
I did a little poking around this morning looking for kokanee hooking mortality studies. The only one I could find that was somewhat relevant was from Idaho in the mid-1950s. As part of a tagging study they held hook and line caught untagged fish in a live box for 8 to 10 days. In total 194 untagged fish were held with 117 (60%) dying. As typically with most hooking mortality studies with "trout" most died within 72 hours of capture and the mortaltiy rate depended on where the fish were hooked - those hooked in the eye, gills, tongue etc had higher mortalties than those hooked in say the lower jaw.

Probably should consider that 60% as a low estimate. Those fish were caught in the spring and I suspect that fish being caught/handled this time of year with warmer surface water temperatures likely fair more poorly. In addition I believe that those caught in the study were with single hooks - with the popularity of double hooks in our fisheries the chances of a fish getting a hook in a critical area (gills etc) is probably elevated.

In short it seems to confirm your fears and what many of us see on the water.

Tight lines
curt

Thanks Curt for the research and your right it does confirm what I knew to be the case. The bottom line here is we have to be wise and be willing to keep within the daily limits set by the state. This topic may be running its course but if nothing else hopefully it has gotten people thinking. It has spurred me on to look into how I can get more involved with the managment/ stocking of Kokanee and see what we can do to keep up with the rising demand and popularity of Kokanee fishing. I would encourage people to continue to share any thoughts or even counter points you might have here as it is always good to look at an issue from all sides and view points.

As far as my stance on fishing forums, radio shows and all of the other media goes, I am grateful to have all of the information available and so many people who are willing to share their knowledge with others to help them/me learn a fishery or catch more fish. I think overall multi media is a good thing and is here to stay, but with it will come more interest and pressure on our local waters, and a lot of times our bodies of water will be more crowded as a result, which seems to go with the territory and you have to take the good with the bad.

Do I get annoyed when I am weaving through 100 other boats on American for Kokanee, of course I do but who really likes crowds? Would I rather everyone were tight lipped though and unwilling to share information, absolutely not! Of course I think there still needs to be some sort of balance to all of this, but not quite sure where the folcrum is. In any case as anglers we all need to be mindful of our limited resources and willing to show restraint when need be, to protect and preserve what we do have.

JDL

 

[smokin' Kokes]

give me a call boys when the commercial guide services start targeting American Lake with 5>10 guides and sleds with a half dozen fishermen on each boat.
we'll do some koke lobbying in Oly. if I have time

think it's thick now trolling.

posted by wifi from Winter Harbor Vanc. Is. BC

 

[Smalma]

JDL -
This mushrooming interest in kokanee fishing is not just a western Washington phenomenon - it is happening throughout the western US.

It is likely due in part to anglers looking for fishing alternatives to more "traditional" fisheries that may have fallen on hard times. That interest is of course further fueled by the rapid sharing of information in today's world. Just one example are all the fishing forums/internet which are using kokanee fishing to stroke their own needs - that can vary from the need to feed an angler's ego, to guides promoting business to fill slack periods in their calendars, to business interests, etc. In addition folks are discovering what many of us had known for years - kokanee fishing is just plain fun!

What can we do? -
1) need to recognize that this mushrooming interest is the new normal and be prepared to deal with. Fortuantely much of that interest seems to chase the latest hottest reports. For those anglers willing to devote time to learning the nuances of the fishing and the waters that they fish often can find more than acceptable fishing on waters that are not on that list of current "hot spots".

2) Continue to have frank and open discussions such as this so that we can collectively understand the broad and diverse angler interests that are out there. And more importantly gain an understanding of what or what is not possible in the world of kokanee of fishing.

3) Across the west fish and game management agencies (including Washington) are recognizing the increasing niche that kokanee fishing is providing for recreational fishers. They recognize the relatively low economic costs of producing such fisheries on waters that are suitable . I have found that the various bios are more than willing to discuss kokanee and their management.

However as you seem to be hinting I think a more broad approach would be welcome by many anglers. That approach could include more detailed kokanee information from the managers (via some sort of web page/fact sheet) or strategic workshops on kokanee that involve the managing agencies so that kokanee managment issues can be dovetailed with the fishing information so many new angles seem to be most interested in. I have found that there is some interest in that sort of approach.

To move in that direction we as anglers need to be willing to provide WDFW and WDFW Commission with input stressing our interest and concerns. As typically is the case that probably best be done with courtesy.

One thing for sure it is unlikely that there will not be a return to the "good ole days". It is clear not only do we as anglers have to adjust our expections the managers do as well.

Tight lines
Curt

 

[smokin' Kokes]

guess I'm going to miss the "Excellent kokanee fishing" at American Lake the rest of June as reported by WDFW. Money for triploids but none for kokanee.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/washington/153/
Triploids for Dad!
American Lake is getting 1,200 extra triploid rainbow trout of about 1-1/2 pounds each just for Father's Day weekend, June 16-17, 2012. It's one of just 14 lakes statewide receiving these extra big trout to encourage you to take Dad fishing!

American Lake is open year-round and offers good harvest opportunities for stocked rainbow trout and kokanee. The lake also supports naturally reproducing populations of yellow perch, brown bullhead catfish, rock bass, largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, and coastal cutthroat.

WDFW boat ramp has a two-lane concrete plank ramp and vault toilets, while two county parks provide access, bank fishing and toilets. Private and military resort facilities are also available.

See Washington State Parks website for ADA accessibility information.

Fishing Prospects
Kokanee
Oncorhynchus nerka Excellent
Largemouth bass
Micropterus salmoides Good
Rainbow trout
Oncorhynchus mykiss Good
Rock bass
Ambloplites rupestris Good
Smallmouth bass
Micropterus dolomieu Good
Yellow perch
Perca flavescens Excellent

read the kokanee stocking report and weep

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01376/wdfw01376.pdf

cup of coffee and back to halibut filleting

 

[Kokanee-Toni]

They don't get reported on

The fry for kokanee don't always get on that list. This information was reported before on this website earlier in the season.
Yes, they plant triploids and trout. They also plant kokanee.