Strip Mining Fish

[Jdlunk]

As sportsmen, one of our responsibilities is to be good stewards and preserve our resources. One current trend I see happening in Western Washington is that when a lake gets heated up or starts producing fish, it gets pounded hard and in essence is strip mined. Take American lake the last 2 years as a case in point. The fish that were planted several years ago as fingerlings finally grew up in 2010 and became easy pickings. The last 2 years just about anyone could go to Amercian Lake at almost any time of day and catch as many Kokes as they wanted, it was hot! As a result there were people having 40 or 50 fish days on a consistent basis, granted most were keeping legal limits and so they were "releasing" the rest. And now this year you hear people calling American lake the "dead sea". One thing about Kokanee though, they are fairly fragile and once they start to bleed they most often die even if released. Any time you net a Kokanee, put it in the boat and take both hooks out, it has a very high mortality rate and almost always dies. It may not float to the surface right away but rest assured it will either feed the eagles or sink to the bottom dead. I myself have been guitly of catching and "releasing" a lot of fish, mainly the silvers up at Riffe once or twice but have stopped doing so. As a lifelong trout and Kokanee fisherman I can say with certainty that the only way to ensure survival when releasing these fish is to leave the fish in the water and gently unhook them, barbless hooks make it the easiest to do this as does a single versus a double hook. I am not saying we should not be harvesting fish nor am I even against catch and release, but I do have some concern when it comes to over harvesting fish. Kokanee fishing seems to be gaining in popularity, but our fish populations may not be able to support all of the pressure here in Western Washington. Take the decline in numbers at Lake Stevens also as a sign that we may be over harvesting our local waters. It does not just happen with Kokanee, as other species are at the same risks, but with Kokanee in particular our options are limited to begin with which means we need to be careful and be good stewards of our resources. I would love to hear from any biologists on this topic, as well as hearing what you all have to say. I will close by saying that if we pound and harvest every lake that heats up, we will all be reminiscing about the good old days when you could drive 20 minutes from home and catch a limit of Kokes!

 

[Stradic]

Kokanee

Kokanee enter a fishery in two years and generally mature in three years some survive to four but not many. After the three year mark maturation occurs the fish spawn and die.The two year fish are the 4-6 inchers that everyone releases but those fish that are in the 9-13 inch range from last year were the three year old fish and all would have died after November. The low numbers in American Lake this year are mainly due to fry survival when the fry were released in 2009 and as they grew into 2010. This time frame is the time when the fish that would have been this years adults had increased mortality. It could have been a die off from toxic algae or could have been a lack of food for the fact that they had to compete with the 2011 huge brood year fish who knows. Last year even with all the pressure on American it held up all the way into October.The problem that you hit right on is this...... American had a good group of larger fish this year. With continued internet reports and publicity these fish didn't last long. Outdoor Line, NW Wild Country, Washington Lakes,KFF, Gamefishin and on and on information moves fast and to thousands of people. Many times this year after spending many hours figuring the fish out and sharing with a few close friends I would come home and read exactly how to unlock the code for that week written in detail on the internet... The week after Mike@bill and Herzog caught fish and boasted about it that next Saturday morning the line at the Free Ramp before light backed up all the way to the street that connects to the freeway only to disappoint many anglers and beat the water up again. If you find a hot spot or a certain technique it doesn't always pay to share because in the end all it did is turn your favorite Lake into a "dead sea". Its kinda out of hand when close to a hundred boats are all in the same part of the lake churning in circles. Boats like Salt Patrol and Simrad boats should be out catching Lings or Halibut some place not Kokanee. The problem isn't catch and release its the internet! 101faceslap101

 

[lowe1648mt]

strip mining

I agree with both statements. Kokanee do not survive well in a catch and release enviroment. Iv'e read those posts of 30 fish days.
When you get you limit, go home or target squaw fish or do something else like pick up litter..
Thank You . Just my opinion. As far as sharing on the Internet- I'm guilty.

 

[Jdlunk]

I learned too this year that with so much media coverage and internet access you have to be very careful what you share and with whom you share it. One thing I have learned about the internet is that it can be good and bad. It is good in that we are able to share information and help each other become better anglers. But bad in that it can put a lot of added pressure on our local bodies of water. Case in point, 3 weeks ago I showed up at American Lake which I have fished for the past 6 years, and at 0450 there were 15 boats ahead of me waiting for the gates to open and by the time I went to launch the line was out the gate again. Why you ask, well a combination of fishing forums and in this case the 2 saturday morning radio shows have also talked a lot about it. I have learned to be a little more careful with what I post and when and think there has to be some balance.

 

[Jdlunk]

Kokanee enter a fishery in two years and generally mature in three years some survive to four but not many. After the three year mark maturation occurs the fish spawn and die.The two year fish are the 4-6 inchers that everyone releases but those fish that are in the 9-13 inch range from last year were the three year old fish and all would have died after November. The low numbers in American Lake this year are mainly due to fry survival when the fry were released in 2009 and as they grew into 2010. This time frame is the time when the fish that would have been this years adults had increased mortality. It could have been a die off from toxic algae or could have been a lack of food for the fact that they had to compete with the 2011 huge brood year fish who knows. Last year even with all the pressure on American it held up all the way into October.The problem that you hit right on is this...... American had a good group of larger fish this year. With continued internet reports and publicity these fish didn't last long. Outdoor Line, NW Wild Country, Washington Lakes,KFF, Gamefishin and on and on information moves fast and to thousands of people. Many times this year after spending many hours figuring the fish out and sharing with a few close friends I would come home and read exactly how to unlock the code for that week written in detail on the internet... The week after Mike@bill and Herzog caught fish and boasted about it that next Saturday morning the line at the Free Ramp before light backed up all the way to the street that connects to the freeway only to disappoint many anglers and beat the water up again. If you find a hot spot or a certain technique it doesn't always pay to share because in the end all it did is turn your favorite Lake into a "dead sea". Its kinda out of hand when close to a hundred boats are all in the same part of the lake churning in circles. Boats like Salt Patrol and Simrad boats should be out catching Lings or Halibut some place not Kokanee. The problem isn't catch and release its the internet! 101faceslap101

In total agreement here, I too was superised to see the crowd at 0450 and have 100 plus boats to contend with on a lake I have fished for 6 years. I did end up with 2 fish that day but it was pretty slow. 100 hundred boats and very few fish caught.

 

[clintonstick]

search for the post gorge 5-8 ryno is a biologist and gives his opinion on mortality,i will not release kokanee they dont survive well period.

 

[Jdlunk]

Yeah I do not release Kokanee either and either stop fishing or have given a fish away to keep fishing once. I have however released silvers at Riffe using barbless hooks a time or two, I have to admit. Kokes though have always seemed too fragile and are always bleeding every time I get them to the boat. I am all for taking your boats limit and calling it a day!

 

[RalphL]

Yeah I do not release Kokanee either and either stop fishing or have given a fish away to keep fishing once. I have however released silvers at Riffe using barbless hooks a time or two, I have to admit. Kokes though have always seemed too fragile and are always bleeding every time I get them to the boat. I am all for taking your boats limit and calling it a day!

that is the only ethical thing to do. Releasing is wasting....

 

[JcTyee]

I learned too this year that with so much media coverage and internet access you have to be very careful what you share and with whom you share it. One thing I have learned about the internet is that it can be good and bad..

I am guilty to of posting info (for as much as I know...) but it also helped me when I started fishing Koks. After hearing about American and a few other lakes recently I will be more mindful of information posted. The radio shows and uber fisherman on them should also take this to heart (yea, rating and content) and show a little more restraint with this fishery. My 2 cents

 

[oldguy43]

Catch your limit, then fish for perch

 

[drsca]

Its the law ,In lakes, ponds, and reservoirs: No min. size. Daily limit 5. When fishing with bait, all TROUT
(except STEELHEAD) equal to or greater than the minimum size are counted as part of the daily limit
whether kept or released.

 

[drsca]

Thanks Stradic and Jdlunk I giving up on the kokes way to much pressure. Its lings and the big salmon for me now.

 

[kokaray]

I'm not panicking you can still catch a couple per trip if you stay away from the googans (and dont brag at the ramp or online or they will follow you), and we may still see better fishing this year but I agree with all above and have felt this way for years. The little (next years kokes) absolutely due not survive being caught and released. If i catch a small one it goes in the ice. With the amount of people killing next years fish hence the bigger survivor fish the the last couple years. But beware with even more and more pressure it may become worse especially if we have a bad survival of a young year class.
If theres not a lot of two year olds that survived from the year before and then half of them were caught and released/killed then the three year old fish will be non existent. I think thats what happened last year and hence the larger but much less fish this spring. Lets hope there are plenty of two year olds out there and we dont kill too many by plain old over fishing and bad practices this year. If not next year wont have any or many big fish. And so will begin another cycle of less fishing pressure due to poor fishing and finally recovery. then overfishing again and so on. Pray for good overwinter survival.
Keep your lines tight. There will be fish to be caught and maybe we will see decent or great years but the good old days of consistent year after year good returns of large fish are gone. We kill too many of the two year olds. Hope for good year class survival rates to keep us going.

 

[smokin' Kokes]

We koke fishing fanatics can help our own cause by contacting your state legislators and state fisheries dept with requests for more hatchery planting/stocking programs for kokanee in more lakes and reservoirs especially close to high population urban suburban areas.

A number of lakes and reservoirs on the west side Cascades could carry larger populations of kokanee but the state fisheries depts main target is rainbow trout. Easy to catch on bait for the weekend fishing family on bait from shore. Fisheries spends far too high percentage of their funds on rainbows and so little on koke programs. Ask them to increase the percentage to kokes.

Ever try to eat one of those triploid genetic engineered 5lb rainbow trout, carp tastes better, but the not so bright guy with a $1000 fly rod thinks he has a TROPHY. Definitely not the other WHITE meat for eating.

Lk Whatcom
Lk Cavanaugh
Lk Shannon
Baker Lk.
Spada Lk
Lk Champlain
Tolt Res.
Cle Elum Lk
L. Kachess Lk
Keechelus Lk
Chester Morse Lk
Howard Hanson Res.
Lk Kaposin
Tanwax
Chop Lk
Alder Lk
Mayfield Res.
Riffe Lk
Merwin and Swift Res.

Most of these could carry far larger plants of kokanee by WDFW in an enlargement of a statewide koke program. Kokes and trout do not compete for the same forage generally especially as they grow larger.
Would take the unsustainable fishing pressure off the few koke waters we have now. Ever try to get into the Merwin boat launch on a busy summer weekend?

Does American Lk have a spawning population in streams or lake shore gravel beds or does the fishery totally rely on plants?

My fishing/hunting licenses/tags and boat license + taxes including the Fed fishing tackle tax. totalled over $500 this year. We need to demand our money's worth. It's a paid for by fisherman resource

 

[Kokanee-Toni]

We koke fishing fanatics can help our own cause by contacting your state legislators and state fisheries dept with requests for more hatchery planting/stocking programs for kokanee in more lakes and reservoirs especially close to high population urban suburban areas.

A number of lakes and reservoirs on the west side Cascades could carry larger populations of kokanee but the state fisheries depts main target is rainbow trout. Easy to catch on bait for the weekend fishing family on bait from shore. Fisheries spends far too high percentage of their funds on rainbows and so little on koke programs. Ask them to increase the percentage to kokes.
Lk Kaposin
Tanwax
Chop Lk
Most of these could carry far larger plants of kokanee by WDFW in an enlargement of a statewide koke program.
Does American Lk have a spawning population in streams or lake shore gravel beds or does the fishery totally rely on plants?

Lk Kaposin I think you mean Kapowsin. This lake has the wrong type of water. It deepest point might hit 30 feet.
Tanwax This lake would not support Kokanee. Only 30 feet deep and wrong type of water
Chop Lk I think you mean Ohop Lake? Again wrong type of water and at its deepest is 25 feet.

Of the lakes you mentioned I know that these would not work.

Most lakes in Washington that have kokanee are not native. American is one of them. They will plant 450,000 fry there this year.
Clear Lake in Thurston County was planted with kokanee, about 5 years ago, in hopes of replacing Lake St. Clair's. But they didn't take off.

I was wondering if you know the budget allotted for kokanee vs trout?

 

[Smalma]

jdlunk -
I did a little poking around this morning looking for kokanee hooking mortality studies. The only one I could find that was somewhat relevant was from Idaho in the mid-1950s. As part of a tagging study they held hook and line caught untagged fish in a live box for 8 to 10 days. In total 194 untagged fish were held with 117 (60%) dying. As typically with most hooking mortality studies with "trout" most died within 72 hours of capture and the mortaltiy rate depended on where the fish were hooked - those hooked in the eye, gills, tongue etc had higher mortalties than those hooked in say the lower jaw.

Probably should consider that 60% as a low estimate. Those fish were caught in the spring and I suspect that fish being caught/handled this time of year with warmer surface water temperatures likely fair more poorly. In addition I believe that those caught in the study were with single hooks - with the popularity of double hooks in our fisheries the chances of a fish getting a hook in a critical area (gills etc) is probably elevated.

In short it seems to confirm your fears and what many of us see on the water.

Tight lines
curt

 

[Jdlunk]

I reached out to the outdoor line and northwest wild country radio programs.

Here is the reply I recieved from The outdoor line and my response below it.

The Outdoor Line
Thanks for sharing the links Jason. I can understand the frustration some are experiencing. The bottom line, all of our fisheries continue to grow in popularity and are, at times, becoming crowed. The internet is a constant flow of information. Yes it’s true. Building up the NW Kokanee Zone this year on The OUTDOOR LINE, more than likely brought more attention to Kokanee fishing. The one thing we have tried to do and will continue to do is bring education. Not just on one location, but really make it an effort to spread it around. During the run of The NW Kokanee Zone, we have covered at least to 7 different lakes in Washington State, 3 or 4 in Oregon and 3 destinations in Idaho. The idea was to spread it out throughout the NW and give folks some sound information to go on and hopefully get the family out and have some success. At The OUTDOOR LINE, we are in the business of reporting, educating and entertaining and speaking for the crew, I feel we accomplish that every Saturday. The show is fluid, in that we will roll through seasons and have that discussion in season as it’s going on. All the different fishing opportunities happening right now make for a ton of show content. We try to cover as many as we can each show, so as not to drive to much attention to any specific fishery. For those who enjoy what we do, please continue to tune in and support the show. For those who fell we are part of the problem, give us some suggestions on how to help make it better. At the end of the day, we all just want the opportunity to get out and hunt or fish, enjoy the outdoors and pass it along to our next generations. Thanks again for the info, DI

Jason
Thank you for the reply. I honestly think the Outdoor line stays pretty balanced and does a good job about covering a multitude of topics, species and locations. I am in no way pointing my finger at the outdoor line, nor any one single source. I do however think that when you combine all of the sources of information, the two radio programs, the internet sites, the seminars, the articles and so on it does have a cumulative effect on our local waters and does contribute to an increase in fishing pressure and a carries with it a risk of overfishing and depletion of our resources. I think information is great and I myself have learned a lot from all of these sources and as a lifelong Kokanee fisherman I love the fact that it is gaining in interest and popularity. I am very concerned though as to rather our current bodies of water and fish populations can handle all of this increased interest and pressure. I think more than anything else we are in a new arena of information and technology and that we will all have to adjust to this new norm. It will require the WDFW to adjust as well as us as anglers. I also think it is important for us all to encourage each other to be good stewards of our resources and be willing to conserve and preserve what we have. I think that if we all work together we can actually improve our fisheries through individual responsibility and conservation, through getting involved in the process and making our voices heard, and from being wise with the tools such as radio broadcasts, internet posts, articles and such. I would like to see some discussions take place on air about individual responsibility and stewardship, and ways for people to get involved in making a difference and leaving a legacy for our generations to come. I shudder at the thought of us all being left with nothing but memories and all sitting around saying remember when………………………..

And here is the answer from Northwest Wild Country
Joel Shangle
"Morning Jason: I'll be glad to join that debate on American Lake, and so will Bill. We'll open the phones on Saturday, too, for all sides. Thanks for the note. "

So based on both of these replies it sounds like both stations are open to input, discussion and feedback. I am happy that we have two Saturday morning radio shows in this area dedicated to the outdoors, and that they are both willing to listen to feedback and join in discussions.

 

[smokin' Kokes]

My whole point is that there are far more lakes/reservoirs close to urban/suburban areas that will support koke populations. What we pay state FW biologists for is to biologically pinpoint those lakes and develop fish programs for more lakes. Each fisherman can not be expected to know the fish biological carry capabilities of every lake in the state. I was only naming off lakes that state FW should at least examine for fish of any species enhancement.

We can argue and fight amongst ourselves and go NOWHERE improving our fishing lot. You guys in reasonable gas bill range of koke lakes in the Sound area have really been screwed by FW, dumping 450,000 kokanee per year in American Lk. is wasteful and a misuse of an expensive hatchery resource. Not the feed resource in the lake to support those numbers. Those fish and more should be planted across a far larger number of lakes within driving range of the Sound urban area.

We have basically 1 kokanee lake with decent sized fish to target here in SW Wa. It's now getting heavy fishing pressure, even from guide services. Been turned into a commercial fishery. Merwin quality koke fishing will not last long. Mid America/PacificCorp and Pacific Power want out of their kokanee salmon steelhead fish hatcheries and campground public land reimbursement contracts in the worst way, yet they take in a cash flow of hundreds of millions of dollars $$$ every year from the publically owned land, river and water resources of Swift, Yale and Merwin. Look for they're contribution to kokanee plants and any fisheries/tourist support to be gone under the next administration in Wa. DC. The end of kokanee fishing on Merwin except for a very small local spawn that will not last with overfishing.

We either stand up on our hind legs like proud kokanee fisher people and demand what we have paid for or we can set at home in the future and be cheetoos & beer NFL couch potatoes.

The only reason that Wyoming and Utah so heavily support the non indigenous kokanee on FG is the huge amounts of out of state tourist fishing dollars $$$$ brought in. Large numbers of non resident license and boat tags sold. Both are financially strapped states that know where the dollars and business voters come from.

Most lakes require yearly plantings of kokanee fry for a sustainable yearly catch of mature fish, few have clean suitable spawning streams and waters.


We need to take an example from the commercial offshore and gillnet fishery in Ore/Wa and their powerful lobbyists in the state legislatures and Wa. DC. They take more of the allotted fish catch and pay less a percentage of the fish hatchery and F&W dept costs.

Much of the Fed. dollars for recreational fish enhancement will disappear next year with the new administration coming in and the drastic Fed. budget cuts coming. We have to help our own cause at the state level.

Lk Kaposin I think you mean Kapowsin. This lake has the wrong type of water. It deepest point might hit 30 feet.
Tanwax This lake would not support Kokanee. Only 30 feet deep and wrong type of water
Chop Lk I think you mean Ohop Lake? Again wrong type of water and at its deepest is 25 feet.

Of the lakes you mentioned I know that these would not work.

Most lakes in Washington that have kokanee are not native. American is one of them. They will plant 450,000 fry there this year.
Clear Lake in Thurston County was planted with kokanee, about 5 years ago, in hopes of replacing Lake St. Clair's. But they didn't take off.

I was wondering if you know the budget allotted for kokanee vs trout?

 

[Smalma]

Smokin kokes -
I'm sure that the lakes on your "list" have been considered for their potential to produce kokanee fisheries by the State's "managers".

Just a couple examples -
Lake Whatcom has a native kokanee population and has supported a very large hatchery program for roughly a century. That hatchery is the source of most of the kokanee planted in the state and was the brood source for many of the kokanee populations throughout the west. It recieves and annual plant of roughly 5,000,000 juvenile kokanee. Its population is slow growing and late matruing. The adult fish returning to the hatchery typically average over 5 years of age (mostly 4 to 6 year old fish) and generally 9 to 10 inches in length at maturity with the average female producing a little over 250 eggs each. Adding more fish to that mix would clearly be counter productive.

Lake Cavanaugh - This is another lake with a natural sustaining kokanee population (all from natural production). Its current kokanee population was introduced in the late 1950s. For decades it has been know for its very small/stunted kokanee - with a couple exceptions most years its adult fish are in that 6 to 9 inch range. Again planting more fish would be probably be a bad idea.

Baker and Shannon - these Baker lake reservoirs for decades supported very viabably kokanee fisheries however recent improvements in the smolt trapping cababilities in those reservoirs have converted most of the lakes' potential to grow kokanee/sockeye to growing sockeye smolts. Doubt that the State, the tribes or for that matter many of area's anglers would think that trading those sockeye for more kokanee is good idea.

Several of the lakes on your list are closed waters due to city water supplies and in most cases if those waters were to be open to the public I doubt that any fishery focus would be kokanee - for example Chester Morse has a wonderful population of native rainbows, bull trout and pygmy whitefish and it would be poor management to jeopardize those populations with an exotic like kokanee.

Bottom line kokanee management can be a complex issue. Many of the State's current kokanee waters rely on natural reproduction -which in many cases is excessive resulting in smallish fish that attract little angler interest Yale reservoir would be an example). Planting more fish in those waters again would make things worst.

There are a number of waters that are sustained totally or mostly via hatchery plants. Again the density of the plants has a strong influence on not only the numbers of kokanee in the lake but their size as well. In the end in may come down to a choice of the angler's and their interest. Do we want lakes with very high catch rates of 8 inch fish, lakes with lower catch rates of 12 inch fish or even lower catch rates and larger fish? Generally speaking based on where angler pressure occurs it seems that most of us prefer the later over the former.

Interesting that you should mention Flaming Gorge. That is a huge body of water at 42,000 acres - 1 /1/2 times the size of Potholes res. and nearly twice the size of Lake Washington. If I recall correctly its kokanee fishery is support soley by natural production by its kokanee. Those large bodies of water often seem to be contradictive in their fishery. Often the over all density of kokanee is quite low but support some very good fishing for above average size fish. That of course is due to the school nature of kokanee. The low densities lead to better growth and as the fish collect in large schools in good feeding areas the densities in those relatively smaller areas can be such to produce great fishing while much of the lake would be essentially barren of kokanee.

I agree that a more accessible kokanee management plan from the state would be of interest. They could spell out some of the potential opportunities as well as some of the options in the types of fisheries that could be produced. However to be effect we anglers need to also do some home work and think about what sort of fisheries are of most interest to us and what sort of trade-offs we may be willing to make to achieve those opportunities.

BTW -
The first kokanee in Utah came from Washington State (Lake Whatcom stock) in 1922.

Tight lines
Curt

 

[smokin' Kokes]

based upon those criteria listed by smalma, those of you in the S. Sound area with limited driving distance ranges are restricted to an overloaded kokanee resource, American Lake. Much as many SW Wa. koke fishermen are stuck with the vagaries of Merwin, it's weather and limited stocking program. American Lake is overloaded by koke fishermen not because of excess fish show exposure or too many fisher people, it's overcrowded with a failing koke fishery due to management failure at WDFW and their very poorly managed and funded statewide kokanee program.

Some of us are lucky enough to be able to expand out our koke fishing experience to BC, Ore. and the Rocky Mountain states.

It's a shame that Wa DFW short shrifts state kokanee fishermen. One must ask themselves, are they getting their $27.50 license fee in quality koke fishing experience.